April 24, 2025, 12:06:12 AM
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High School Chemistry Forum / Claisen condensation....
« Last post by ve_90 on April 10, 2025, 05:07:07 PM »
Claisen condensation between cyclohexyl acetate and methyl acetate. Both have alpha hydrogens, so I’m wondering: which one will act as the electrophile and which as the nucleophile? Is it indifferent? I have this doubt in order to understand which mechanism is correct, since, in theory, I could obtain multiple products.

Thank you for your help.
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We are short one signal in the C-13 spectrum; we could use LC-MS data to confirm this product.
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Probably worth trying the 90% before screwing around to try to make the 98% yourself. Both are nasty stuff, even in small amounts they spit out NOx smoke in surprising amounts just from being exposed to the air. It lives up to the name "fuming nitric acid" I assure you.
Thank you for this suggestion.  We have now performed a medium-scale nitration using 90% nitric acid by adapting a protocol that had been used on a derivative of pyrrole, and we purified it via silica.  We had to use more acetic anhydride to address solubility of the starting thiophene aldehyde.  The yield was 38%, which is certainly adequate for our purposes and in the same range as what was reported for a similar thiophene aldehyde.
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Citizen Chemist / Re: Ferric Chloride help please
« Last post by Borek on April 08, 2025, 08:19:52 AM »
No idea.

Note: in most cases when it comes to reagents it doesn't matter how they were produced - a compound is a compound, no matter where it does come from. Things like concentration, pH, presence of other reagents recipe calls for are much more important. In practice sometimes (rarely, but often enough it is always a thing to remember) minute amounts of byproducts (which do depend on the production method) can influence the output of a process. The purer the reagent, the lower chances of the problem - but purity typically comes at a hefty price.

As I wrote earlier - the only to make sure it works is to try.
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Citizen Chemist / Re: Ferric Chloride help please
« Last post by barrel browner on April 08, 2025, 04:48:53 AM »
Thank you would this have still been made using the mill scale process?
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Citizen Chemist / Re: Ferric Chloride help please
« Last post by Borek on April 08, 2025, 04:40:36 AM »
You can always try to buy solid FeCl3 from chemical suppliers, like Sigma-Aldrich, and make the 50% solution by yourself.

Trick is, devil may be in the purity - reagent grade ferric chloride is about 98% pure, and the other 2% are not well defined, yet they can be crucial for your application. The only sure way of checking it by trial and error.
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Citizen Chemist / Re: Ferric Chloride help please
« Last post by barrel browner on April 08, 2025, 03:18:18 AM »
I use it for a metal finish which is a rusting process so the ferric is mixed with acid, alcohol and copper sulphate, we have had issues with coppery patches on our finish spoiling the black colour.  We have a small amount of old stock Ferric Chloride that works fine,  around 8 years ago they switched to making it by mixing mill scale with ferrous sulphate, I believe the old process was iron and Hydrochloric acid, so I am looking for someone who can advise me on where to get it or how to make it myself, we always used to buy it in 50% strength.
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Citizen Chemist / Re: Ferric Chloride help please
« Last post by Borek on April 08, 2025, 03:02:07 AM »
Is this question in any way different from the one you asked here:

https://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=113091.0

In general, if it is the concentration that is a problem (you never confirmed) you can always try to evaporate some of the water (just heat the solution up and wait).

Also: I have no idea what the "old process" is.
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Analytical Chemistry Forum / MOVED: Ferric Chloride help please
« Last post by Borek on April 08, 2025, 02:53:17 AM »
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Citizen Chemist / Ferric Chloride help please
« Last post by barrel browner on April 08, 2025, 02:38:45 AM »
Hi All, Ferric Chloride these days is made with Mill Scale and Ferrous Sulphate, can someone explain to me how to make a 50% strength Ferric chloride solution using the old process.
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