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High School Chemistry Forum / Extracting Ethanol From Beer.
« Last post by jabbay on November 11, 2024, 04:26:34 PM »
As a sideproject to another project on yeast viability in beer brewing me and my friend intend to extract ethanol from the beer as it is unable to be consumed due to the location it has been brewed and school policies etc.We were just wondering if any had any ideas on how best to go about this.So far we have used a basic distilation setup in order to extract the ethanol with varying levels of success.However this method isn't very scientifically viable as we keep running into the issue of not being able to get the beer to the right temperature without it either bumping or not getting hot enough to evaporate the ethanol.We do not currently have access to a fractional distilation collumn but are looking into investing in one through the schools chemistry budget.A water bath was also attempted to be used to head the liquid more reliably, however the equipment in the school labs is not precise enough to heat the beer well enough to evaporate the ethanol reliable.
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https://www.bluestar-forensic.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/false_positives_2008_study.pdf
There was a 2008 study of false positives involving BluStarR, a commercial formulation of luminol.  They used a stock solution 0.1 M CuSO4, but I am not sure how they performed the experiment (such as the volume used).  They noted:

All the solid chemicals were first dissolved into distilled water at a 0.1 mol/L concentration. Liquid chemicals
were diluted to obtain this same concentration.
MnSO4 (Manganese sulfate): bright, short-lasting white chemiluminescence; build-up of a brown precipitate.
CuSO4 (Copper sulfate): non-lasting blue chemiluminescence; build-up of a brown precipitate.
FeSO4 (Iron sulfate): non-lasting blue chemiluminescence; build-up of a brown precipitate.
MgSO4 (Magnesium sulfate): no reaction.

So the brown color sounds normal, but I think decreasing the concentration of the metal ion couldn't hurt.
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High School Chemistry Forum / Re: Anhydrous Sodium Hypochlorite?
« Last post by marquis on November 11, 2024, 12:31:32 PM »
A further note bleach is sodium hypochlorite in aqueous solution. 
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High School Chemistry Forum / Re: Anhydrous Sodium Hypochlorite?
« Last post by marquis on November 11, 2024, 12:24:44 PM »
Corribus knows the theoretical.  Haven't been to that part.  However, when and if you deal with these chemicals, extreme caution is needed.  We used 12.5% bleach for chlorination of polymers ( usually natural rubber).  It was easy to generate this strange green gas ( chlorine for those not in on the joke) accidentally.  This happened under a hood, so no problem.  But....without knowing the chemistry, problems could easily have developed.  Please use caution!!!
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There is a 2007 review article by Barni and coworkers on luminol.  They give the Weber formulation of this reagent as follows:

"Prepare 0.5 L of 0.4 M NaOH (8 grams NaOH).  Stock solution A.
Add 10 mL of 30% H2O2 to 490 mL water.  Stock solution B.
Dissolve 0.354 g luminol in 62.5 mL of 0.4 M NaOH, and dilute to a final volume of 500 mL.  Stock solution C (final concentration is 4 mM).
Store solutions A, B, and C at 4°C away from direct light.
Mix 10 mL of each stock with 70 mL of water to obtain 100 mL of working solution.  Decant solution into a vaporizer or sprayer and use immediately as an aerosol.  Wear goggles, gloves, and protective clothing.  Use a respirator, and keep the number of people to a minimum.  Apply in the dark.  Aerate the room after investigation."

Obviously, this could be scaled up or down as needed.  I will try to add some further comments, probably about copper ion as a catalyst, when I am a little less pressed for time.
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We worked out solvent conditions a week or two ago, and PMA and anisaldehyde give adequate staining in TLC, although neither one is great.  We made this compound at least five times previously, and it was always so pure that no column or recrystallization was necessary.  A big mystery is what was different on this occasion, and I don't even have a good hypothesis.  If we are able to purify it, I won't let the lack of a hypothesis trouble me.
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High School Chemistry Forum / Re: Luminol + Hydrogen Peroxide Solution not glowing?
« Last post by Borek on November 11, 2024, 03:12:15 AM »
I added 0.2g solid luminol, 115ml water and 10ml NaOH to make it basic

10 mL NaOH doesn't tell us anything about the amount of NaOH present (was it 1M NaOH solution, or 0.01 M solution?) and this is a crucial information, as it can mean several unit differences in the final pH.

(same about other parts of your text, 10 mL hydrogen peroxide is just half of the information needed, just like 1M CuSO4)

Perhaps our organikers will have something to add, but bonds in hydrazides (luminol is a hydrazide) are similar to those present in amides and look susceptible to hydrolysis in high/low pH. So yes, could be leaving the solution for a week was not a good idea. If anything, I wouldn't add NaOH.
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Thanks for reply, rolnor,

98% sulfuric acid contains plenty of water stoichiometrically, water has very low mol mass.
11.7g sulfuric acid(98%) should only contain 13 mmol (1.63 eq.) water. It doesn't seem sufficient for hydrolysis. But idk. The idea of hydrolysis in heated sulfuric acid itself feels really off to me yet I haven't come up with any alternative. For context, I've tried this reaction once but HNMR spectra was a bloody mess and HPLC-MS didn't look good either. I have no clue what has gone wrong with the procedure itself being so simple.
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98% sulfuric acid contains plenty of water stoichiometrically, water has very low mol mass. It's not 100% sure how this reaction happens, what intermediates are in play
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Organic Chemistry Forum / Re: Which base would you use here? No pyridine or DMA - Toxic
« Last post by rolnor on November 11, 2024, 01:18:28 AM »
What reason? They are soluble? You could use a very small, catalytic, amount of DMAP plus some other base like Lutidine
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