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Topic: About the "Carbon System"  (Read 8901 times)

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Offline lemonoman

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About the "Carbon System"
« on: April 24, 2007, 11:49:30 PM »
One should ponder that with all the alternatives throughout history we have chosen carbon-based energy as our primary source. What chemistry makes the carbon system win over all the rest?

Why is it the current system?

Why hasn't 'another' system become more popular by now?

Will there ever be 'another' system?

Thoughts / Discussion are encouraged.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: About the "Carbon System"
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 02:17:42 PM »
I have noticed that many colleges have as there second year in chemistry a course known as Organic Chemistry. It is known as the course that separates the wheat from the chaff (ok so Pchem is a trial also). Organic chemistry basically dwells on compounds of carbon. Silicon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and the rest do not seem to have their own course. There is something about carbon that has ensconced itself into our way of living that we just cannot shake. Even the so-called non-carbon energy sources use carbon compounds. For instance hydrogen fuel cells use methane. It seems that carbon forms the most transportable energy compounds. There must be something about the chemistry of carbon that makes it so unique.

Offline lemonoman

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Re: About the "Carbon System"
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 02:44:54 PM »
I have noticed that many colleges have as there second year in chemistry a course known as Organic Chemistry. It is known as the course that separates the wheat from the chaff (ok so Pchem is a trial also). Organic chemistry basically dwells on compounds of carbon. Silicon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and the rest do not seem to have their own course. There is something about carbon that has ensconced itself into our way of living that we just can not shake.

I think this is ludicrous.  Carbon chemistry doesn't dominate in schools because it's our energy source...it dominates because the important proteins, enyzmes, cells in our body have carbon at their backbone (with the exception of water, of course).

Granted, pharmaceuticals are carbon-based, probably because carbon chemistry has been studied to such a great extent.  But this has little to with carbon being our energy source, and everything to do with the fact that we are 'organic' creatures.

Even the so-called non-carbon energy sources use carbon compounds. For instance hydrogen fuel cells use methane. It seems that carbon forms the most transportable energy compounds. There must be something about the chemistry of carbon that makes it so unique.

Carbon forms some of the most readily-available energy compounds...especially 'back in the day' when not too many other options were available.  The cost of transporting these compounds didn't outweigh the cost of finding different, less-available ones.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: About the "Carbon System"
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 03:20:53 AM »
So the unique ability to form various types of bonds does not make it different and more useful for energy production.

By the way – ouch (ludicrous)  ;)

I was waxing poetic with the discussion of organic chemistry. Obviously I have a long way until I attain Keats status (Ode to a Carbon Atom, maybe). I always paired enzymes and such with biochemistry.


Offline Donaldson Tan

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Re: About the "Carbon System"
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2007, 11:34:35 AM »
Let's examine what makes a good fuel, while ignoring the human (infrastructure) factor first since the fuel already exist before Man built a supply infrastructure for Carbon-based fuels.

Characteristics of a Good Fuel
- Abundant
- High Energy Density
- Easy To Transport

Carbon is abundant - it is everywhere, present in a form ready for mining. Carbon is able to form many bonds, so it has high energy density. The most abundant form of carbon-based fuel is in the liquid state, follow by solid state, then gas state. It is easy to transport liquid and solid fuel over long distance. Moreover, given the high energy density, the amount of energy consumed in transporting a unit mass of solid/liquid fuel would be insignificant to the energy stored in the unit mass of fuel.

From a chemical point of view, carbon is versatile. There are many ways of processing carbon-based fuel - from direct combustion to gasification. It can be used to generate heat to run a steam turbine or generate hydrogen gas which can be piped into a gas turbine or fuel cell for electricity generation. The latter is reported to have at least 60% efficiency, compared to 35% of steam turbines for electricity generation. Carbon-based fuel can gasified to be converted to another form of carbon-based fuel, such as the conversion of Natural Gas to Shell's Gasoil (synthetic diesel).
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline Donaldson Tan

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Re: About the "Carbon System"
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2007, 11:06:36 AM »
Characteristics of a Good Fuel
- Abundant
- High Energy Density
- Easy To Transport

The challenge today is to synthesise gasoline and diesel from coal, natural gas and unconventional resources (e.g. Sand Oils and Kerogen). Why wasn't this exploited previously? According to oil analysts at HSBC Corporate and Investment Bank, crude must be priced at least $48/barrel for fuel synthesis from Natural Gas and Coal to be economically viable. RAND Corporation estimates that the exploitation of Keregen for Synthetic Fuel requires crude to be priced at least $70/barrel.
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

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