January 16, 2025, 07:03:55 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Ethanote ion  (Read 5078 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline deutdeut

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
  • Mole Snacks: +2/-0
Ethanote ion
« on: January 25, 2007, 04:40:42 AM »
I know that the ethanoate ion is stabilized by resonance, there are four electrons delocalized over the -COO group, so, what is the type of bond exists between C and O, I think it's not a pure single bond as revealed in the resonance structure, but what's it?

Offline Neecze

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23
  • Mole Snacks: +4/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • I just wanna know...
    • Polish Chemical Forum
Re: Ethanote ion
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2007, 11:08:44 AM »
Bond order between C and O in acetate can be considered as equal 1.5.

Offline deutdeut

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
  • Mole Snacks: +2/-0
Re: Ethanote ion
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 10:20:03 PM »
But say, in carbonate ion, the bond order is 4/3, that means there are 8/3 electrons between each carbon and oxygen, but how can the number of electrons be a fraction? Is it just an average number?

Offline Bakegaku

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Mole Snacks: +20/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Hydrogen peroxide is my miracle cure to everything
Re: Ethanote ion
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 10:54:04 PM »
But say, in carbonate ion, the bond order is 4/3, that means there are 8/3 electrons between each carbon and oxygen, but how can the number of electrons be a fraction? Is it just an average number?

It's related to the uncertain nature of an electron.  Although we draw the resonance structures separately, they really exist simultaneously, making the bonds have strengths between the different states.

I'm bad with wording; if you need something clarified...  ::)
"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing"
-Socrates

"I see, I forget.  I hear, I remember.  I do, I understand"
-Confucius

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
- Albert Einstein?

"American cartoons place characters in situations; anime
places situations around characters.  Anime characters
are not like fictional characters but more like fictional
people; their actions stem directly from their personalities,
and not just as a means to move the story's plot
forward.  We are made to sympathize with them, and
not simply be entertained by them."
~John Oppliger~

Offline deutdeut

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
  • Mole Snacks: +2/-0
Re: Ethanote ion
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2007, 11:11:15 PM »
But how come the number of electrons between the atoms is a fraction?

Offline lemonoman

  • Atmospheric
  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 607
  • Mole Snacks: +71/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ethanote ion
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2007, 11:50:24 PM »
It's actually the probability that any given electron will be found in the bond - so yes, it's an average value.

Like for the COO- group, the electrons will be in one CO bond OR the other...not 1/2 an electron in each (although, averaged out, each electron spends half its time in one bond, half its time in the other)

Offline deutdeut

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
  • Mole Snacks: +2/-0
Re: Ethanote ion
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2007, 12:24:53 AM »
So that means, in ethanote ion, there are 4 delocalized pi-electrons. And a pair of them will spend half a time in one C-O bond and a half time in the othe C-O bond and that forms a half pi-bond?

Sponsored Links