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Offline Assman

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How the heck do you know the...
« on: January 29, 2008, 05:38:52 PM »
...charge of any element? Please don't tell me that i have to memorize them. Is there a way to find out their charge? Is there any kind of pattern. I know that the group 1 is +1 and group 2 is +2 but then group 3 isn't +3.

Or can someone post me a link to a periodic table with elements and their charges so i know the patter throughout the periodic table.

Offline agrobert

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Re: How the heck do you know the...
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2008, 06:03:21 PM »
This depends on if you know the difference between oxidation state and charge.  also as you learn more about transition elements it will become clear to you why you shouldn't memorize things but you should understand reactivity and trends.  This is a periodic table with common oxidation numbers for each element.

http://www.sciencegeek.net/tables/Mokeur_periodic_tablebw.pdf
In the realm of scientific observation, luck is only granted to those who are prepared. -Louis Pasteur

Offline Assman

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Re: How the heck do you know the...
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2008, 06:25:51 PM »
wats the difference between oxidation and cahrge? isnt it the same thing for some elements

Offline Arkcon

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Re: How the heck do you know the...
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2008, 07:15:40 PM »
Well, you got group IA and IIA just right, they are +1 and +2, respectively.  The next column is the transition elements, we'll skip those for now.  The real group IIIA, you know Boron, Aluminum, Gallium are in fact 3+.  It does get a bit more complicated than that, pretty rapidly however.

Group IVA (Carbon, Silicon, Germanium) tend to form covalent bonds instead of forming 4+ ions.  But still, 4 bonds, for group IVA.  After that, we go the other direction --  Nitrogen -3, Oxygen -2, the halogens -1.  And then the noble gases, which have a complete octet, and don't form compounds (at least, not easily -- sorry, complexity again)

The transition metals may form more than one ion -- there is Iron +2 and +3  but we tell you what we mean, we call them ferrous and ferric respectively.  So there you go, it starts to get tricky,so we tell you the charge.  Just like for plumbous, plumbic, mercurous, mercuric -- you can look those up.

Chromium is exciting, it can be +1, +2, +3, +4, +5, or +6.  Even more fun, these ions are each different colors.  In fact, that's so many ions, chromic and chromous wasn't enough, and we started numbering the ions Cr(III)3+, Cr(IV)4+.  Matter of fact, the -ous and -ic I bored you with up above are being phased out.  Well, that's what they said in my high school days, but they're still using them.

So yeah, it is a lot lot to memorize, but there are plenty of hints along the way to help jog your memory.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Yggdrasil

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Re: How the heck do you know the...
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2008, 10:41:36 PM »
The only good trends are that group 1 ions are +1, group 2 are +2, group 15 ions are -3, group 16 ions are -2, and group 17 ions are -1.  For the transition metals, most can take on multiple oxidation states.  While you will probably become familiar with the common oxidation states of many transition metals, it is not worth memorizing them (and any good chem teacher should not ask you to memorize the common oxidation states of transition metals).  Three exceptions, however, are Ag, Zn, and Al.  Ag ions are always +1, Zn ions are always +2, and Al ions are +3.

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