[Jiro]

Im wondering if this a very smart path?
BS   chemical physics
PhD chemical engineering or metals and materials engineering

[Jiro]

Assuming you can transfer to a Chemical Engineering phd program with some kind of chemistry major I think I've decided to do that... for now... However after reading this I am not so sure:


"I have a PhD in Chemical Engineering.  My advice, based on my experience, at least for Chemical Engineering, is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY DO NOT GET A PhD IN ENGINERING.  You would probably be better off doing something, anything, really anything else.  DO NOT GET A PhD IN ENGINEERING!  The number of PhDs massively, grossly, drastically exceeds the number of PhD level jobs, with the remote possible exception of postdoc positions, which suck.  Long hours for work that pays less than the janitorial staff on a per hour basis.  Give up on academia.  Any open position for a tenured job gets hundreds of resumes from people with years of postdoc experience.  It gets worse, at least in the oil and chemical industry, a PhD makes you over qualified for jobs that do not require a PhD, and they don't have any PhD jobs open.  I now work as an IT consultant.  Even with all the screaming about how IT now sucks as a job, it is still better than Chemical Engineering.   At least jobs better than a postdoc exist in IT.

Paul"

[Donaldson Tan]

LOL. If you read the TCE (IChemE) forums, you will be even more depressed about the chemical industry overall, because it isnt actively recruiting anyone, not even chemical engineers. Alot of graduates from my chemical engineering department joined the lucrative financial sector as soon as they graduate.

In fact, I am considering if I should switch to the fine chemical stream of my chemical engineering course. it is supposedly competitive because they take in 10 students a year. Being part of the fine chemical stream means I will attend chemistry lectures and tutorial at the chemistry department, on top of my core chemical engineering classes. I am pretty sure I can get in (if I want). Among the reasons I am contemplating because if I am not part of the fine chemical stream, this year is my last academic year where I will be actually studying chemistry in a significant proportion.

Chemical Engineering With Fine Chemicals Processing (H801)
The motivation behind the introduction of this new stream in October 2000 is the need identified in the fine chemicals and pharmaceutical industries for chemical engineering graduates with formal training in synthetic chemistry and process development. The stream combines the core of the main chemical engineering MEng programme with special courses, taught jointly with the Chemistry Department, aimed at developing skills and knowledge in the chemical, engineering and socio-economic aspects of drug and speciality chemical synthesis and production. The structure is very similar to the main MEng stream but with several sections replaced by modules appropriate to the speciality. The course duration is four years and graduating students receive the MEng degree. Further information on the Chemical Engineering with Fine Chemicals Processing stream may be obtained from the Admissions Tutor.

Above is the description of the fine chemical stream at my department. What do you all professional chemist and chemical engineers think of this course? Is it worth pursuing in terms of job prospects? Honestly, I feel i can't do univeristy life without a significant component of chemistry in it. Do you all think if taking this stream will exert a positive or negative influence on my career prospects as a chemical engineer?

[Dude]

Here's my take from my observations in school and work.  Physics is the best undergraduate degree that you can get and essentially nothing will throw you for a loop once you get to grad school.  However, you MUST go to graduate school because you will have a hard time getting a job if you stop at the BS level.  After that, your career options are for all practical purposes limited to government sponsored research (NIST), academia, or small startup tech companies.  You might get lucky and be one out of two or three staff physicists at Intel, Dupont or some other big company.  The choice of school is important here because of the competition.  Do your best to get a degree from one of the top 30 schools and make sure you have at least two full publications before accepting your PhD.

If you consider stopping at the BS level, would like to be in the chemical industry but are undecided about grad school, a BS in chemical engineering is the best degree to obtain.  Everyone reports to the BS process engineers in industry since they are the ones responsible for making the company $$.  Research at the grad school level in CE basically blends into the same research as chemistry programs.  Your undergraduate school as a BS engineer is not very important.  Essentially all programs are recognized.  If you go to grad school, pick one of the top 15 (Minn, MIT, Cal Tech, Texas, Princeton, Mich. to name a few) schools and have at least one full publication.  Contrary to Paul's manifesto, my observations indicate that a PhD in Chemical Engineering is the best option (out of Chemistry, Physics or Chemical Engineering) for job stability at the PhD level.

Chemistry is an unusual subject.  Statistically, jobs for BS Chemists are relatively low-paying.  Chemistry is also a very elitist subject.  If you major in Chemistry and want to go to grad school, do your absolute best to have one of your schools Stanfor, Harvard, Princeton or Cal Tech.  There are some real posh jobs (meaning real interesting research that you get paid money to do) at Dupont, Dow, and ExxonMobil central research, however, you must have a "pedigree" to get in.  

If it sounds elitist and irritating, it is.  Welcome to the world of nerds and egos.

[Donaldson Tan]

If you ever consider a PhD Chemical Engineering in Europe, come to Imperial College London or Cambridge or ETH Zurich. ETH Zurich was where Albert Einstein graduated. It's in Switzerland. I totally agree with Dude on elitism. It really isn't because everyone from the top grad schools are really good, but because most of the graduates from there are brilliant, so it's more convenient to recruit the top brains. Some of my professors here (at Imperial College Chemical Engineering Dept) are millionaires. Their spin-off products and companies basically make so much money off the London Stock Exchange.

[Jiro]

Could you recommend schools in Canada for PhD Chemical Engineering? Is Canada even a good idea?

[Donaldson Tan]

hmm.. i think the ivy leagues offer stipends for all their phd students..

i dont know what the best is, but i know university of toronto, mcgill, mcmaster and university of british columbia are pretty reputable.

[Jiro]

Arrg i just got this mail back from university british columbia...

"A direct transfer cannot be done without a supervisor willing to take you on as his/her graduate student.  Therefore, applications, references, etc are needed just like any new applicant.  Also, if your background is chemistry and if you are not a chemical engineer, odds of being placed is very slim.  If you are still interested in applying, please e-mail us back your full mailing STREET address.

Thank you.
Chemical & Biological Engineering
UBC"