[OrganicSynthesis]

I was thinking of majoring in Organic Synthesis at U of T and was wondering about the job prospects in the organic chemistry industry.

EDIT: Also, for people who are organic chemists, what are your salaries and level of education (PhD, BA, Masters?)

[Smrt guy]

The demand for chemists will always be high relative to other fields.  Traditionally speaking, chemists tend to have a much lower unemployment rate than other professions.  That being said, the economic downturn has hurt us as much as other fields.  As such, the job market is tight at the moment.  However, by the time you graduate, the recovery will likely be underway.  As far as salaries go, I would first say don't get a B.A. in chemistry, a B.S. is a superior degree if you only want a bachelors.  Pay depends on the type of work and the region, but in industry in the midwest (St. Louis specifically), B.S. chemists were starting at $35-40k when the economy was good.  I don't know about M.S. chemists but PhD chemists typically start over $70k.  Academia is of course lower and you would need to do a postdoctoral fellowship or two.

[OrganicSynthesis]

B.S.? As in a specialty?

EDIT: Oh geez, I thought B.A. just meant a BAchelors degree. I know realize that a B.S. is a bachelors in science (thought it was B.Sc.)

Anyways, thank you so much for your information ^^
I really do hope that there's a good economic recovery for chemists

[cpncoop]

This is a good question.  It has been my experience that while there is always a demand for chemists, the demand diminishes with increasing degrees.  In other words, it's easiest to find a job with a BS or BA, and becomes increasingly difficult with an MS and PhD. 

If you're good at what you do, it doesn't matter, as you'll always be needed.  Having said that, I've seen many recent PhD students that get stuck doing post-doc after post-doc, or working in temp positions just trying to find a full-time job. 

[OrganicSynthesis]

Wait so having a PhD decreases your chances of finding a job? Or are you talking about B.Sc. jobs versus PhD jobs? Because I wouldn't mind getting a PhD and end up at a B.Sc. job. I love organic chemistry, and knowing as much as I can about it is no burden.

(also, I'm going to get a B.Sc. in organic synthesis, not B.A. woops)

[cpncoop]

In my opinion, getting a PhD makes it harder to find a job.  You can't really apply for a BsC job with a PhD.... This is only my opinion based on what I've observed, and would welcome other opinions....

[stewie griffin]

Because I wouldn't mind getting a PhD and end up at a B.Sc. job. I love organic chemistry, and knowing as much as I can about it is no burden.

Ah, that seems like me when I first decided to go to grad school. I love to learn (and still do). So why not go? Who cares if I don't get the highest paying job... it's all for the love of the knowledge right?
Unfortunately it doesn't matter that you wouldn't mind doing a B.Sc. job with a PhD... what matters is that you won't get employed to do a B.Sc. job if you have a PhD. Sure you'd be qualified (actually, overqualified) for the B.Sc. job and probably even do it better than some college grad with a B.Sc., but with a PhD you are now more expensive to employ. Why would a company pay you more to do a job that someone else can do for much cheaper?
You say, "Well I'll just tell them I won't mind working for less", but that just leads to suspicions as to how good you really are if you have an advanced degree but would be happy to do something "below" your level.
I'm not saying this is how it always is and that employment in chemistry is a big bleak mess, but from everything I've seen and read it does seem like a Catch 22.  
After 5-6 yrs of busting your butt off, going through the ups and downs of grad school, feeling very unsure of yourself a few times a year, etc.. you might not want to be doing something that you could of easily done with just a college degree. I'm not trying to turn you off, but think about what part of chemistry you really love. I've always been told that if what you truly love is bench work then you should just get a masters. PhD's will eventually be expected to manage/oversee others and you'll have less bench time that you'd desire. If it's the bench work you love, perhaps get the masters, go out and get a bench job, and be happy. If you want more opportunities than just bench work then perhaps consider sticking it out for the PhD.

[Smrt guy]

On the contrary, until the recent economic decline, Pfizer St. Louis had in its employ quite a large number PhD chemists, many doing bench work in discovery and process chemistry.  With the job market being as tight as it is right now, I know that many PhDs are actually doing jobs that are intended for people with lesser degrees.  I'm sure that in the future things will balance back out and companies will go back to hiring people of lesser degrees for education appropriate positions.  All in all, you really just have to decide exactly what it is you really want to do with your career.  Getting a PhD is no trivial task and many people find they can't make it through the process (I go to a small school and I've seen several drop outs over the last four years).  Ultimately you have to find the balance between the type of work, and pay that you want and how much you're willing to do to get there.

[cpncoop]

While pharma (especially big pharma) will always employ many a PhD, the number of jobs relative to the number of PhD's is a lesser amount than the number of jobs for people with Bachelor's degree's per degree.

[stewie griffin]

Re: Smrt guy
Sure you can find exceptions to every rule... Like I said,

I'm not saying this is how it always is 

 

Obviously Pfizer, the world's largest pharma company, is going to employ a good number of PhDs. I actually did an internship at the St. Louis site in the med chem division one summer. Although I'm sure everyone that works there had different experiences, it was made clear to me by both the PhDs and the Masters that I was working with that a PhD's job was not to focus on benchwork. The Masters folks did almost all of the benchwork, with the PhDs doing some but to a large extent they were the bigger picture folks that determined what molecules to make and how to respond to each new set of SAR.
Regardless, I certainly didn't mean that you can never do benchwork (in the sense of synthesizing molecules, doing process chemistry, etc) with a PhD. I know many people that do. I guess I should have clarified that the benchwork I was referring to was the kind that you would do if you simply haven't had enough education (quality control, running HPLCs all day, etc). Those jobs don't appeal to me. I would be willing to do them for a while to simply get by when the economy is bad, but why would a company hire me to do quality control when a B.Sc. can do it too, and for much cheaper? 

[OrganicSynthesis]

Oh geez, well... at least I know what I'm getting into. When I get into University, I guess I have 4 years to decide which one I want to do haha.