[OHSadvisor]

Hi all,

I have recently been very disappointed with an MSDS software called CHEMWATCH, it seems that they use data not based on the manufacturers advice and provide their own reports. At first the system was fantastic and we used it all, until there was an accident in our plant and CHEMWATCH provided the wrong data which led to doing some research on the accuracy of their products.

I found that when i compared 10 datasheets from the manufacturer and when i looked at the chemwatch MSDS they were classified differently and this has got me EXTREMELY worried. What got me even more concerned was whne a friend in the industry told me that CHEMWATCH are being sued by several manufacturers over their provision of inaccurate information.

There is a few online alternatives, mainly i've heard of Chemalert and Infosafe, both that seem good.

Infosafe looks to be the best at the moment as Chemalert seem to do the same thing as chemwatch. Does anyone currently use Chemwatch or Infosafe and can you suggest an alternative to Chemwatch?

Thanks for your help. SP.

[DrCMS]

What were the problems you had?

[OHSadvisor]

Hi DrCMS,

Apologies for not getting back to you as soon as i could have. I have been overseas on business and haven't had the chance to have a look at my forum posts.

Our company are still currently using Chemwatch and are still finding bugs and other issues, the main issues we have are.

- The Chemgold system uses data which is not provided by the manufacturer.
- Several legal documents have emerged from other companies and government agencies detailing significant risk in using the chemwatch document over the manufacturers document.
- The information technology support is inadequate, i have raised the issue previously posted with them and no response as of yet.
- Their software seems "too good to be true" they offered us when first contracted, 500 MSDS included per day, which seems too good to be true.

I seem to be lost in the woods when it comes to this, I seem to be fighting a battle within my company, as i see this system not to comply with my legal requirements. I want to comply, my company want to comply, I do not know enough about MSDS and the alternatives out there to comply correctly. I have been researching with my colleagues and contacts within my industry, however their opinions are varied.

Your assistance here would be appreciated.

[DrCMS]

When you say Chemwatch is using data not supplied by the manufacturer what data are you talking about?
What product are you using Chemwatch for?  Commodity chemicals or propriety mixtures?

[OHSadvisor]

Hi there,

Chemwatch is a Material Safety Datasheet storage program. We currently purchase chemicals which are classified as Hazardous and Dangerous, whenever we purchase the product we get supplied with an MSDS. Becauase we purchase so many chemicals we decided to use an online database full of MSDS.

The data i'm talking about is the hazardous/classification/ingredients and generally the manufacturers data is not being placed on the document "independently reviewed" by chemwatch.

Thanks for your assistance.

[billnotgatez]

The news is full of stories where the manufacture of a product provides information that is not accurate or misleading.
The ones we here most about are the drug industries.
So now you are saying that this other organization is also having inaccuracies.
Who are we to trust?

[DrCMS]

So if I understand you correctly Chemwatch gives a different classification of a propriety product to the manufacturer of that product.  The real question is who is correct, having seen a larger number of US MSDS's for similar materials that are classified differently I generally discount any US MSDS and rely on European ones instead.  The European system of classification and MSDS layout is much more proscriptive than the US model with much less scope for over classification to cover arse of the companies involved.  The new GHS system may give rise to better datasheets in the US we'll wait and see.

[OHSadvisor]

@billnotgatez. Trusting people is an important part of my and all chemical business, in my opinion here how can a 3rd party  such as Chemwatch be trusted to classify these products correctly? They may not know all of the ingredients in the products and have no duty of care to the services. I am always inclined to believe what the manufacturer says and their classification of the product, because they themselves have made the product and have completed the testing.

@DrCMS. Chemwatch do give a different classification of a proprietry product to the manufacturer. If chemwatch took the product and tested it the same way as the manufacturer, then i would have a tendency to believe the independent review, however, this is not the case. Their model does not emplore any sort of testing of the product, and i doubt they could given that they promote they hold over 5,000,000 MSDS. A better option would be to copy the text.

Time for my take on the new GHS model, or the "Global Harmonised System" which looks to be a significant step forward although has some drawbacks. Within the GHS each country should be classifying their products the same way although it seems at this stage that this will not be the case. Australia and New Zealand will be adding their own classifications, including HSIS, to the MSDS itself which will likely lead to other countries sticking with their own classification but just "taking on board" the GHS.
The GHS will likely provide a great model for the US MSDS to be based on and will hopefully lead to a much better standard of MSDS within the US as DrCMS hopes also.

[DrCMS]

What I have seen before is that some companies seem to overclasify their product to be "on the safe side" which is just plain wrong.  I have seen this happen more often on US datasheets.  Which I put down to the more litigious nature of the US and the less precriptive rules on product classification, labeling and datasheets.
The ANSI 16 part MSDS is a better layout and I hope GHS will improve the quality of information available.  I think the EU R&S phrases are very very useful and give a much better idea of the hazards at a glance compared with the NFPA/HMIS system.

[SafetyGuy]

Sorry to be so late to the conversation, but you mention some really important points that I wanted to add onto. Your MSDS experience sounds like a nightmare; nevertheless, there are a number of reputable, trustworthy online MSDS providers. MSDSonline has a library of over 3 million MSDSs and pushes out updates as they become available - and their MSDSs are the actual sheets from the manufacturer. Plus, if you ever need an MSDS or an update they don't already have, they'll go get it for you from the source.

Another reason not to dismiss online providers is the arrival of GHS. As was mentioned, GHS is going to be a significant step forward in standardizing MSDSs; however, it is also going to require businesses to update a significant portion of their MSDS library. Companies using a good online tool should be able to update their library much more easily.