December 24, 2024, 07:15:51 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant  (Read 6473 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SapereAude1490

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-0
Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« on: August 22, 2012, 03:44:15 PM »
I've been thinking. Could pressurized anhydrous HF be used for computer cooling.(boiling point around 20°C)  Copper seems to be resistant. I wanted to make a Hampson-Linde air liquefier but it's too loud and cumbersome, so I thought, since F is more electronegative than oxygen and has hydrogen bonds, HF should have a larger heat capacity than H2O, right?

I know it's dangerous but is it worth the hassle? How do I even calculate the benefit? Should I just use freons or some other liquid?

Offline AWK

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7976
  • Mole Snacks: +555/-93
  • Gender: Male
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 04:57:17 PM »
But HF is extremely chemically aggressive.
AWK

Offline Arkcon

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7367
  • Mole Snacks: +533/-147
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 05:06:19 PM »
Many plastics and some metals resist HF, that's true.  But nothing engineered by humans lasts forever, some parts will wear out, fail, and release the coolant.  Then the HF is a serious risk for some metals, plastic, any silicate (including glass) and human tissue.  This is why we tend to not use liquid ammonia as a coolant.  Its gentler on the environment than fluorocarbons, and less expensive, but the tiniest leak is a serious odor problem.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 07:50:39 PM by Arkcon »
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline SapereAude1490

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-0
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2012, 03:49:03 PM »
So... it can be done but it's dangerous. Hmm... water it is then... wait, are there any organic compounds that are better than water at heat transfer? And what about a gas liquefier; how small can it be made? I realize I should post this on a engineering forum but I have faith in chemists  :D

Offline fledarmus

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1675
  • Mole Snacks: +203/-28
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2012, 08:58:59 AM »
Look up "refrigerants" on wikipedia. They have a good basic description of what makes a good refrigerant and different classes of compounds which can be used as refrigerants.

The big advantages of water are that it is environmentally benign and that due to a high heat of vaporization, it can absorb and release a lot of energy through phase changes. The phase change occurs at a high enough temperature, however, that it is not as useful as it might be, and it can also be corrosive in itself and through dissolved salts. Ammonia and various halocarbons are also very commonly used.

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 10:48:03 AM »
Various glycols and brine are also common.


Offline Daveolyte

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2012, 05:05:19 PM »
Perfluorocarbons are great.  Way less toxic than HF.  Better heat transfer than water.  But pricey.

Why not just use liquid nitrogen?

Offline SapereAude1490

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-0
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2012, 07:19:17 PM »
No way to replenish it(N2)... I also want something compact.

Offline curiouscat

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3006
  • Mole Snacks: +121/-35
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2012, 07:43:33 AM »
Have you considered junction effect or piezoelectric cooling? Might be a fit for your application.

Offline vmelkon

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 474
  • Mole Snacks: +28/-10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2012, 10:12:23 AM »
You are better off with the thermoelectric effect. The device is called a TEC (thermoelectric cooler) and you can find a few for 5$ on eBay. With some good cooling, a 90 W TEC can drop the temp by 25 C. You can freeze water with it.

Offline SapereAude1490

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20
  • Mole Snacks: +8/-0
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2012, 11:48:48 AM »
Can you add some links please? Wikipedia or ebay

Offline Jasim

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 120
  • Mole Snacks: +15/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Analytical chemist, passionate about chemistry
Re: Using anhydrous HF as a coolant
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 11:25:53 AM »
There are liquid coolant systems for pc's on the market. Some are made for water, others are made for coolants.
As an example see: http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g30/c337/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Coolant_-_Brand.html?gclid=CPONpv_orbICFcVFMgodDgMA-A

For other options Wikipedia has a little info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cooling

Besides the chemically aggressive nature of HF, it's extremely dangerous. I work with HF in the laboratory. I wear specially designed ppe and am always extremely cautious. A few drops on the skin can cause a potentially life-threatening situation. It leeches calcium from the bones and can quickly cause cardiac arrest...That's just from a few drops getting on your skin.

Sponsored Links