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Topic: Tertiary amine+combustion  (Read 3385 times)

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Offline Rutherford

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Tertiary amine+combustion
« on: January 03, 2013, 06:30:36 AM »
A tertiary amine in H-NMR has 4 signals, one from 3 and one from 2 protons and two signals from 4 protons. Write its structure.
Their answer was N-methylpiperidine while mine was N-ethylpyrrolidine. Why is mine incorrect?

Just a quick one: Why does cyclobutane have a less heat of combustion than methylcyclopropane?

Offline synthnick

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Re: Tertiary amine+combustion
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 07:29:33 AM »
Are the δ given?
Since the products of these reactions are the same; look at the stability of the starting material (any reason for destabilization?).

Offline curiouscat

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Re: Tertiary amine+combustion
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 07:35:07 AM »
Just a quick one: Why does cyclobutane have a less heat of combustion than methylcyclopropane?

Because the cyclopropane ring is more strained than the cyclobutane ring? Bayer strain Theory?

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Tertiary amine+combustion
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 08:48:57 AM »
Just a quick one: Why does cyclobutane have a less heat of combustion than methylcyclopropane?

Because the cyclopropane ring is more strained than the cyclobutane ring? Bayer strain Theory?
I know the strain theory, but I am not sure how to apply it here. My guess: because cyclopropane is less stable, it has a bigger energy content, so more energy is released in its combustion. Then, this could be applied to all isomers that have different stabilities.

Are the δ given?
Since the products of these reactions are the same; look at the stability of the starting material (any reason for destabilization?).
They aren't given. I actually shortened the problem because I thought that the other info won't help to distinguish between these two compounds. Here is the full version:

An unknown non-ionic compound A contains carbon, hydrogen and one more element.
When 1 mole of A reacts with 0.5 mole of HCl, the solution has pH 11.
When 1 mole of A reacts with 1 mole of HCl, the solution is slightly acidic.
When 1 mole of A reacts with MeI, a new compound is obtained. When 1 mole of the new compound reacts with 0.5 mole of HCl, the obtained solution is acidic. In H-NMR, A has 4 signals, one from 3 and one from 2 protons and two signals from 4 protons. Write its structure.

Did I miss something here, so my structure isn't okay, or are both structures concluded from the data given?

Offline curiouscat

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Re: Tertiary amine+combustion
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 08:53:03 AM »
Because the cyclopropane ring is more strained than the cyclobutane ring? Bayer strain Theory?
I know the strain theory, but I am not sure how to apply it here. My guess: because cyclopropane is less stable, it has a bigger energy content, so more energy is released in its combustion.

That was my reasoning, yes.

Quote
Then, this could be applied to all isomers that have different stabilities.

I think so. You suspect not?

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Tertiary amine+combustion
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 09:18:37 AM »
No no. I just concluded  ;). Thanks for the second question. The first left.

Offline synthnick

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Re: Tertiary amine+combustion
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 11:34:45 AM »
Without knowing the δ's you can suggest both molecules.
Knowing the δ's; N-methylpiperidine has the methyl group at 2.2-3.6 ppm and N-ethylpyrrolidine has the methyl group at 0,8-1,2 ppm.

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Tertiary amine+combustion
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 11:48:00 AM »
Okay, thanks.

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