[power_jen20]

Hi there,

I am experimenting with homemade cleaning alternatives and have made the following concoction

Ingredients:
1 1/2 cups citric acid
1 1/2 cups washing soda
1/2 cup baking soda
1/2 cup sea salt

from here:

http://thankyourbody.com/all-natural-diy-borax-free-dish-detergent/

The only deviation I made from the above recipe is adding baking powder (UK) which also contains cream of tartar as well as sodium bicarbonate.

When I mixed the concoction together it made a hissing sounds as though gas was being produced and the mixture went very clumpy, sticking together. The bowl also went extremely cold, freezing to the touch. The original recipe I used didn't mention any of this and the picture seems to show the mix as being a dry powder, not what I have at all!

I mixed the powder together in a plastic melamine bowl and used a silver teaspoon to combine it. Could this have been a catalyst for some chemical reaction?

I just want to make sure that this would be expected and that I'm not going to add something poisionous or corrosive that will poision the family or knacker the dishwasher.

Thanks in advance.

For reference, I used coase sea salt, citric acid monohydrate (food grade) baking powder ( disodium phosphate, sodium bocarbonate) and soda crystals (sodium carbonate decahydrate greater than 30%)

[Corribus]

When I mixed the concoction together it made a hissing sounds as though gas was being produced and the mixture went very clumpy, sticking together.

That's because gas was probably being produced.

Any acid plus carbonate will produce carbon dioxide.  You can get the same effect by putting baking soda into vinegar.  I assume this was a power-only mixture (no water), but if it is a really humid day that could be enough to get some reaction.

EDIT: I should add - I don't know how this is supposed to clean dishes, though.  There's no real surfactant in that mixture, unless citrate can act as one and I'm not aware of it.

[power_jen20]

Hi Corribus,

The washing soda is what shifts the grease, from wikipedia


Domestic use
In domestic use, it is used as a water softener in laundering. It competes with the magnesium and calcium ions in hard water and prevents them from bonding with the detergent being used. Sodium carbonate can be used to remove grease, oil and wine stains. It is sold as washing soda, soda crystals, or sal soda. Sodium carbonate is also used as a descaling agent in boilers such as those found in coffee pots and espresso machine.

I'm not a chemist, since high school, I just want to get the dishes clean without poisoning anyone. I take it that the result will not do that and it's safe to use as intended?

[billnotgatez]

I got this excerpt from
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/foodchemistry/f/blbaking.htm
What Is the Difference Between Baking Soda & Baking Powder
I highlighted the interesting part in red.

Baking powder contains sodium bicarbonate, but it includes the acidifying agent already (cream of tartar), and also a drying agent (usually starch). Baking powder is available as single-acting baking powder and as double-acting baking powder. Single-acting powders are activated by moisture, so you must bake recipes which include this product immediately after mixing. Double-acting powders react in two phases and can stand for a while before baking. With double-acting powder, some gas is released at room temperature when the powder is added to dough, but the majority of the gas is released after the temperature of the dough increases in the oven.

This still has me confused a little, since dough implies a certain amount of moisture and you were using dry powders.
One should also note that citric acid is part of your mix as well.

I could suppose that a slight amount of moisture got into you mixture from humidity in the kitchen or some other source. Or, possibly the method of mixing initiated the gas producing process. I know in the old days we used to sift the dry ingredients together rather than stir.

By the way, WIKI also has some good information about baking powder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_powder

We should also note that the internet link you posted did talk about desiccant as well.

[billnotgatez]

Your list of ingredients has baking powder ( disodium phosphate, sodium bocarbonate)
I am setting aside the typo bocarbonate for bicarbonate.
What I am interested in, is that disodium phosphate is not cream of tartar (Potassium bitartrate, also known as potassium hydrogen tartrate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_powder
WIKI list common constituents of baking powder as

Common low-temperature acid salts include cream of tartar and monocalcium phosphate (also called calcium acid phosphate). High-temperature acid salts include sodium aluminium sulfate, sodium aluminum phosphate and sodium acid pyrophosphate.

disodium phosphate and sodium acid pyrophosphate sound similar but I am not sure they are the same.

It would be helpful if you listed the brand names of   citric acid, washing soda, baking powder and salt.

[schmidling]

We have been using home made liquid soap in the dishwasher for the past few months and the boss says it works as well as Cascade which she had been using for years.

Most of our glassware has been ruined by using commercial detergents and we now now why.

We use re-cycled oil from our deep fryer for all our soap so it is practically free.  The only expense is KOH and this we have made from fire place ash but it's tedious and not practical.

180 ml of oil and 15 cents worth of KOH will make about a liter of soap and about 50 ml of this soap will do a load of dishes or  dirty clothes in the laundry.

It's pretty simple to make if anyone is interested in the details.

Jack