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Topic: What did i do wrong here?  (Read 2454 times)

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Offline antimatter101

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What did i do wrong here?
« on: July 19, 2013, 06:27:52 PM »
Hello, everyone

I tried calculating the pH of a 1M solution of fluoroantimonic acid (strongest acid in the world). Its pKa is 1025, which is a huge amount.

First, can somebody tell me how to insert a picture?

Offline antimatter101

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Re: What did i do wrong here?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 06:36:50 PM »
NOw i know how to upload pictures

Offline Arkcon

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Re: What did i do wrong here?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 07:39:06 PM »
Now that you have the basics down, you can add value to the images by cropping out white space or worse, the program's border.  And definitely crop out the edges of your screen wallpaper -- some people don't do that.  And maybe clean up the image -- reduce colors to just black and white.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline magician4

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Re: What did i do wrong here?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 10:42:54 PM »
Quote
What did i do wrong here?

in my opinion, you somewhat lost directions whilst working the equations...
... mostly because there seems to be confusion between "initial value for acid" and "value of acid at equilibrium", it seems to me

my proposal would be:

let's set up the general law of mass action expression for a 1-protonic acid HX

[tex] K_a \ = \ \frac {[X^-] \ \cdot \ [H^+]}{[HX]} [/tex]

now, [X-] and [HX] are concentrations at equilibrium.
how did we get there?
we started with an initial concentration c0 of acid HX and purred it into water, so it would partially *) dissociate:
c0(HX) = [HX] + [X-]
"the initial concentration of acid will be distributed between the equilibrium concentration of the named acid plus the equilibrium concentration of its corresponding anion"

form this, it follows directly that [HX] = c0(HX) - [X-]
furthermore , for each [X-] generated, there will be a [H+] generated, too, so we can argue [H+] = [X-]

let's introduce this to our initial expression:

[tex] K_a \ = \ \frac {[X^-] \ \cdot \ [H^+]}{[HX]} \ = \ \frac {[X^-] \ \cdot \ [H^+]}{c_0(HX) \ - [X^-]} \ = \ \frac {[H^+] \ \cdot \ [H^+]}{c_0(HX) \ - [H^+]}[/tex]

solving this expression for [H+] results in:

[tex] \ [H^+] \ = \ - \frac {K_a}{2} \ + \ \sqrt { \left( \ - \frac {K_a}{2} \right)^2 \ + \ c_0 \ \cdot \ K_a} [/tex]

with the solution [H+] = 0.9999999... [itex] \approx [/itex] 1  (if we inserted the values for your real problem here)

... leading to the revelation, that a strong acid for all practical purposes will be (sufficiently) dissociated to call it completely dissociated, with c0(HX) becoming [H+]

hence, even for the strongest acid around, you can't have more protons than your initial concentration of HX has to offer in total, and hence in effect there would be no difference with respect to the pH resulting thereof if we talked HSbF6 , HI  or HClO4 or HCl , respectively, at same initial concentrations: all would result in pH = 0 , in this case


regards

Ingo




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note: even with next-to-complete dissociation, there still will be one or another molecule around, that didn't dissociate.
that's what a Ka-value [itex] \neq \infty [/itex] (in your case: 1025) is all about
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 11:10:49 PM by magician4 »
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