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Topic: How to make Ferric Citrate  (Read 13267 times)

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Offline Ballistic

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How to make Ferric Citrate
« on: July 21, 2013, 02:47:18 PM »
Hi guys, just to recap, I am interested in studying water chemistry in aquaria, fertilisers, and plant hormones use in aquaria.

I would like to make some small samples of iron citrate to use as an iron supplement to feed plants as part of a larger study.

I have a small lab setup and wonder if you could help with the process?

I have at my disposal citric acid and iron filings (though cannot rule out steel or carbon present in iron filings).

I have read some of the cached articles on the similar product ammonium iron citrate, so I have a rough idea about it. One person was using steel plates and therefore used electolysis which I would hope would not be necessary with filings.

Many thanks in advance.


Offline Arkcon

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Re: How to make Ferric Citrate
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2013, 03:54:23 PM »
If your iron filing are meant to be used as a chemical reagent, they're likely fairly pure.  Citric acid is a chelating agent for iron, so a solution of citric acid should rapidly attack iron filings.  It will be time consuming tor purify, and difficult to quantify for the home scientist.  And if you have access to a university or industrial laboratory, you should probably just buy some.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Ballistic

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Re: How to make Ferric Citrate
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2013, 04:36:33 PM »
Thankyou for your reply. I wanted to produce as I have only one chemical supplier who doesn't supply it, but I can get most other chemicals.

The only other reference to making it online on WikiAnswers says:

"Although citric acid is a weak binder of iron, coordination is possible if enough of the citrate is available to push the equilibrium towards binding Fe(III). I would probably add 50:1 ratio of citrate:iron in water. So, if you start with 1 mol of iron (III), add 50 moles or more of citrate to assure that all the iron is chelated. In addition, it's preferable to add the citrate in its disodium form, although citric acid by itself should still bind to the iron. If you start with citric acid, you can add 2x moles of NaOH to form the disodium form of citrate."


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_i_make_iron_citrate

Unfortunatley for me, I was left scratching my head, looking at the formula, and atomic numbers, I can't think where 50:1 comes from.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: How to make Ferric Citrate
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2013, 04:49:03 PM »
Well, making the solution as acidic as possible is important, and citric is a fairly weak acid ... so that mostly seems plausible as a chleator forming a complex.  However, you're making a new compound -- when you add iron filings  to citric acid, maybe in a slight stochiometric excess of iron -- when most of the iron is gone, there will be no more citric acid, and only iron citrate and some insoluble iron.  If you evaporate the resulting solution, it will leave iron citrate, that can be dried, and weighed.

I could be wrong, and another member of this forum will correct this, and tells us why its wrong, so the next threads are better ones.  That's something that doesn't happen on about.com, wiki.answers, or Yahoo answers.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Ballistic

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Re: How to make Ferric Citrate
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 04:56:17 AM »
It would be great if anyone else could shed some more light on the subject.

Offline Ballistic

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Re: How to make Ferric Citrate
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2013, 06:10:33 AM »
This is what I have found, although the language is dated, imperial measures and somewhat difficult to understand in places, this is from COOLEY’S CYCLOPÆDIA

OF PRACTICAL RECEIPTS AND COLLATERAL INFORMATION ... 1880

Ferric and Ammonium Citrate. Syn. Ammonio-citrate of iron: Ammonio ferric citrate; Ferri ammonio citras. L. There are several preparations in which the term ‘citrate of iron’ has been applied. That commonly known under this name is really a double citrate of iron and ammonia, and appears to be correctly called ‘ammonio-citrate of iron.’

B. P. Liquor Ferric Persulphatis (B. P.), 8; liquor ammonia, 191⁄2; citric acid (in crystals) 4; distilled water, a sufficiency, mix 14 of the solution of ammonia, with 40 of water, and all gradually; the solution of ferric sulphate stir constantly and briskly; let the mixture stand two hours, and put into a calico filter and allow to drain. Wash well the precipitate until it no longer gives a precipitate with barium chloride. Dissolve the citric acid in 8 oz. of the water, and having applied the heat of a water bath add the precipitate of ferric hydrate previously well drained, stir them together until the whole or nearly the whole of the hydrate has dissolved. Let the solution cool, then add 51⁄2 of the ammonia, filter through flannel, evaporate to the consistency of syrup, and dry it in thin layers on flat porcelain or glass plates at a temperature not exceeding 100°.

Prep. (Ph. L.) Ferrous sulphate, 12 oz.; carbonate of sodium, 121⁄2 oz.; dissolve each separately in boiling distilled water, 6 pints; mix the solutions whilst still hot, and allow the precipitate to subside; after a time decant the supernatant liquor, wash the precipitate frequently with water (drain it), add of citric acid (in powder), 6 oz., and dissolve by the aid of a gentle heat; when the whole has cooled, add of liquor of ammonia, Ph. L., 9 fl. oz., and gently evaporate to the consistence of a syrup; in this state spread it very thinly on flat earthenware dishes (or sheets of glass), dry by a gentle heat, and when dry keep it in well-stoppered bottles.

(Ph. D.) Citric acid, 4 oz.; distilled water, 16 fl. oz.; hydrated ferric oxide, obtained from the sulphate, 5 oz.; liquor of ammonia, 4 fl. oz., or q. s.

(Wholesale.) A mixture of iron filings and citric acid, in powder, with barely sufficient water to cover it, is kept in a warm situation for some days, occasionally stirring the mass, and replacing the water as it evaporates. A saturated solution is next made in distilled water, there being previously added more citric acid (about half the weight of the acid first used), as required; it is then neutralised with liquor of ammonia (about 11⁄4 oz. of liquor of ammonia, sp. gr. ·882, to every gallon of the solution of sp. gr. 1·025), and the solution is concentrated by evaporation; the process is then completed as in No. 1. The first part of this process produces a salt of the protoxide of iron, or ferrous citrate, which is afterwards converted, by exposure to the atmosphere, into a citrate of the magnetic acid, or ferri, ferro-citrate, and, lastly, into citrate of peroxide of iron, or ferric citrate.

B. P. Liquor Ferri Persulphatis 8. Liquor ammoniæ 191⁄2. Citric acid (in crystals) 4. Distilled water, a sufficiency. Mix 14 of the solution of ammonia with 40 of water, and add gradually the solution of ferric sulphate. Stir constantly, let the mixture stand 2 hours and filter through calico, and allow to drain. Wash until the washing ceases to precipitate barium chloride, dissolve the citric acid in 8 of water, add the precipitated ferric hydrate, and heat in a water bath until dissolved. Let the solution cool, add 51⁄2 of the ammonia, filter through flannel, evaporate to the consistency of syrup, and dry on flat porcelain plates in thin layers at a temperature below 100° F.

Obs. Pharmaceutical writers have been so diffuse in their disquisitions on the preparation of this salt, as would lead to the inference that there is some difficulty attending it. The contrary is, however, the case. The only care necessary is to spread the syrup solution very thinly on warm sheets of glass to dry, which it will rapidly do if they are placed in an atmosphere of warm dry air, for which purpose a ‘drying closet’ is the most convenient. The dry salt may then be easily detached from the glass, and will form thin scales, or lamellæ, of great brilliancy and beauty. It is also better to use a little more oxide than the acid will dissolve, as the remainder will be employed in a future operation. Less water may be used, or even a larger quantity than that mentioned; but in the first case the liquid will become difficult to filter—in the latter it will require more evaporation. Boiling water dissolves about twice its weight of citric acid, and there remains 13⁄20ths of this quantity in solution when cold, and it takes rather more than910 twice the weight of the citric acid in moist hydrated protoxide of iron to produce saturation.

Prop., &c. This beautiful salt is of a rich ruby colour, and forms glistening transparent scales, very soluble in aqueous menstrua, and the resulting solution is less easily decomposed by reagents than the solutions of most of the other salts of iron. It is ‘compatible’ with the alkaline of carbonates and bicarbonates, and several other salts, and is nearly tasteless, advantages which have been perhaps overrated by both prescriber and patient. It is doubtful whether this article has not obtained a larger sale from its pleasing appearance than from its medicinal virtues. Several persons who have prepared it in lumps or powder, by the simple evaporation of the solution to dryness, have been unable to sell it under that form, even at a lower price.

Ammonio-citrate of iron is soluble in water; the solution neither changes the colour of litmus nor turmeric; nor is it turned blue by ferrocyanide of potassium; but either potassium hydrate or lime water being added, it throws down ferric hydrate, and ammonia is evolved. From 100 gr. dissolved in water, potassium hydrate precipitates about 34 gr. of ferric hydrate.—Dose, 3 to 10 gr., in water, wine, or bitter infusions.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: How to make Ferric Citrate
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2013, 08:51:23 AM »
I am now confused

I wonder which citrate you want

Some results from GOOGLE
Ammonium ferric citrate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_ferric_citrate
Iron(II) citrate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron%28II%29_citrate
Ferric citrate
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/f3388?lang=en&region=US
Iron(III) citrate
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/f6129?lang=en&region=US

I guess you are doing something like this
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iron In A Reef Tank By Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry

Quote
Since many hobbyists do not have access to the chemicals required to make iron(II) citrate, I'd advise buying a commercial iron supplement. There are a number available that seem appropriate and are not very expensive. Some commercial supplements combine manganese with iron (such as Kent's product), presumably because the scientific literature has demonstrated that phytoplankton also scavenge manganese from the water column. I've not experimented with manganese, but it is probably fine to use if you cannot find a pure iron supplement.

I'd also advise using only iron supplements that have the iron chelated to an organic molecule. The iron sold for freshwater applications is sometimes not chelated because free iron is more soluble in the lower pH of freshwater tanks. I'd avoid those products for marine applications. It will likely still work (as many of the studies in the scientific literature use free iron in seawater), but probably not as well because it may precipitate before it has fully fortified the system with iron.


Offline Ballistic

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Re: How to make Ferric Citrate
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 10:56:05 AM »
Hi there, it's definitely iron citrate I want, that antiquated article appears to deal with both compounds
under the same heading. And yes, it's for aquarium use.

The detail of synthesising seems to be fairly straight forward if someone could help bring the process up to date.

Offline Ballistic

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Re: How to make Ferric Citrate
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 06:09:14 PM »
Does anyone know of any other forums where there might be more specialists or more engaging conversation?

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