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Topic: Photosynthesis chemical reaction  (Read 5454 times)

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Offline TheNH7

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Photosynthesis chemical reaction
« on: July 25, 2013, 04:40:19 AM »
Hello, I'm a 12th grader without any knowledge of chemistry from school, nor have done any external reading about any material involving chemistry. I'm a student in a program by Ness Technologies and our main goal is a start-up idea. My group's idea involves the chemical reaction of the carbon dioxide and water molecules in the photosynthesis process in plants, rather how does it trigger, what causes it to trigger and what happens during the process. I've managed to find some reaserches about the process but I really don't understand parts of equations and explanations that they give, therefore if you could try to simplify your answer I would appreciate it very much.
Thanks! TheNH7.

Offline Hunter2

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Re: Photosynthesis chemical reaction
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 05:27:19 AM »
Simplyfied : 6 molecules of carbon dioxide and 6 molecules of water will be react by nature (god hands with sunlight beams) to sugar (glucose) and 6 molecules of oxygen.

6 CO2 + 6 H2O => C6H12O6 + 6 O2


Offline Arkcon

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Re: Photosynthesis chemical reaction
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 06:05:15 AM »
Hello, I'm a 12th grader without any knowledge of chemistry from school,

That's OK, everybody has to start from somewhere.  A little odd 'tho, that you haven't had chemistry yet.  What science have you had?  Even in junior high, or grammar school?  You can use that information now, you know.

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nor have done any external reading about any material involving chemistry.

Well ... try that.  If you want useful answers.  That is answers, you can use.

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I'm a student in a program by Ness Technologies and our main goal is a start-up idea.


I have to go look up more about them.  Even a start-up usually works with basic principles under their belt.  Unless the investment is a Ponzi scheme, or a pseudo-science semi-religious cult.

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My group's idea involves the chemical reaction of the carbon dioxide and water molecules in the photosynthesis process in plants,


Well, you're in luck.  That is fairly well known, and easy to find out about.

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rather how does it trigger, what causes it to trigger

Ho-Kay.  We smack straight against a problem.  "Trigger", with regard to a chemical reaction, is a meaningless term.  Nothing "triggers" anything.  Reactions happen, or they don't, or they happen slowly, or they require energy input.  But right here, you say nothing.  You have to be told this, because this will be a very irritating thread, if you insist on a complete useful answer, with no background at all.  You will have to put effort in clarifying terms like this into meaningful chemistry terms.

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and what happens during the process.


Hunter2: gave you some help in this regard.  And when you better understand terms, we can give you more help.

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I've managed to find some reaserches about the process


People started on the problem in the 1800's so, yeah, I've no doubt that you did.

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but I really don't understand parts of equations and explanations that they give, therefore if you could try to simplify your answer I would appreciate it very much.

That's going to be hard.  No one wants to write entire textbooks in an online posting.  You will need to review some high school level science textbooks to learn the basics.  And ask meaningful questions on what you still don't understand.

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Thanks! TheNH7.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline TheNH7

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Re: Photosynthesis chemical reaction
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 06:26:19 AM »
MOD Edit [*Monster quote cut*]

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Thanks! TheNH7.

First of all, thanks yet again!
Now for some explanations: The school program I study goes by the following: In middle school you study biology for 3 years (7th to 9th grade), physics for 2 years and along side physics some very basic equations of chemistry which don't help me here.
For high school you either have to choose computer science (basic programming) or chemistry, and for my lack of interest in chemistry as of 9th grade I chose computer science, therefore there's no availability of studying chemistry in school, don't blame me, blame the ministry of education where I live, I think that it might be usefull but they decide teaching silly things instead.

For this project the main idea was to find out how things work and try to understand it and hopefully not get to chemistry which me and my group don't understand as well as we would've liked, and because of the fact that we need to get to a certain point of the project at a fixed, nearby date, we don't have time to get to the advancement of things that I've looked at. I didn't specify exactly what was I looking at and you're right about that so I'll do so now - I was looking at some equations which involve stuff that looked to students which are not in our group but study chemistry like electricity or something, for example the equation:
2CO2(g)+2H2O(l) -> 2HCO2H(ag)+0.5O2(g)
this part was understandable, but then underneath it was this:

E(degrees)= -1.43V (delta G(degrees) = +5.72 eV)

Which I have no idea what does that mean, neither some chemistry students which didn't study that yet.

Can you explain that phrase to me?
I have no idea what does that mean.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 08:36:19 AM by Arkcon »

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Photosynthesis chemical reaction
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 08:35:27 AM »
First off, kindly don't quote my entire point by point annotated quote of your already long posting.  That's a waste of space.  Instead, actually read the points I make, and maybe reply to one or two more that need more help.

First of all, thanks yet again!
Now for some explanations: The school program I study goes by the following: In middle school you study biology for 3 years (7th to 9th grade),

You definitely should have been taught the basic reactions of photosynthesis during those 3 years.  Without photosynthesis, there would be no biology on the planet Earth.  Unless your courses aren't biology, and are instead anatomy, medical science, evolutionary biology and ecology only.  Which would be weird.  Please review your old textbooks on basic biology for photosynthesis.  You've been given the basic reaction by Hunter2: and haven't used it yet in a posting.  Instead, you've jumped to a more complex reaction you've read somewhere.  You have to walk before you can run.

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physics for 2 years and along side physics some very basic equations of chemistry which don't help me here.

They don't?  'Cause I think they could be useful.  The very basic sort of chemical reactions are what you've gotten here.  And they should be applicable with minor changes.  But then, two years of physics isn't much time to learn physical chemistry, which you do need for your later reaction.

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For high school you either have to choose computer science (basic programming) or chemistry, and for my lack of interest in chemistry as of 9th grade I chose computer science, therefore there's no availability of studying chemistry in school, don't blame me, blame the ministry of education where I live, I think that it might be usefull but they decide teaching silly things instead.

*SIGH*  Ho-kay.  We get this once and a while.  I recognize that different nations have different curricula.  I gave you useful hints to solve your problem.  If that's incompatible with the national curriculum ... I.  Don't.  Care.  Well, actually I do, kinda, on so far as I may find you in a laboratory I work in, with a foreign degree "equivalent" or higher than mine while you still know nothing of the basics.  But that's my problem.  Your task, if you want to be able to perform the way that's needed to address this and similar problems is to get your hands on the the chemistry text your university system uses (that you didn't take) and learn the basics.  Starting with what you have from your physics courses, this will not be as hard as you might think.

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For this project the main idea was to find out how things work and try to understand it and hopefully not get to chemistry which me and my group don't understand as well as we would've liked, and because of the fact that we need to get to a certain point of the project at a fixed, nearby date, we don't have time to get to the advancement of things that I've looked at.

Yikes.  You could have just said, "I don't wanna" instead.  And saved us some space.  I don't understand the feasibility of a project where you want to know some advanced things, but not the basics, but only advanced things that are well known, that your group simply doesn't understand.  Why can't your group bring on-board some chemists?  Some university friends who took chemistry instead of computer science?  You should find the easily -- they are the ones in the computer lab sobbing quietly into their hands.  Maybe they have already reached out to you for help?   A diversity of skill sets is the proper way to organize a project.  The group leader should know that.

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I didn't specify exactly what was I looking at and you're right about that so I'll do so now - I was looking at some equations which involve stuff that looked to students which are not in our group but study chemistry like electricity or something, for example the equation:
2CO2(g)+2H2O(l) -> 2HCO2H(ag)+0.5O2(g)
this part was understandable, but then underneath it was this:

E(degrees)= -1.43V (delta G(degrees) = +5.72 eV)

Which I have no idea what does that mean, neither some chemistry students which didn't study that yet.

Can you explain that phrase to me?
I have no idea what does that mean.

OK, that voltage potential is explainable in terms of physical chemistry.  Fortunately, with your physics background and the mathematics background typically associated with computer science, you are well prepared to begin to understand it.  But we can't teach a half years worth of physical chemistry in online postings.  You will simple have to read a physical chemistry textbook, and try to piece it together.

But I told you that before.  Your particular situation doesn't change that we simply can't write a textbook for you, one posting at a time.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline curiouscat

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Re: Photosynthesis chemical reaction
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 08:42:45 AM »
I'm a student in a program by Ness Technologies and our main goal is a start-up idea.

Can you tell us more about Ness and this program?

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Photosynthesis chemical reaction
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 09:15:14 AM »
Can you tell us more about Ness and this program?

I think I can actually make a pretty good guess.  The poster's domain is Israel, and Ness Technologies is a prominent IT firm located in Silicon Wadi (literally translated -- that is Valley, so Israel's Silicon Valley.)  So that's pretty cool -- even if a little too cute.  Its nice of them to help out the high school students with real world problems and how to solve them.  If Ness wants to solve this problem intelligently, then they should bring some local high school chemists onto the project, like I said.

I was not aware that the Israeli school system had such a restrictive curriculum -- I would have expected rigidity like that from Asia or the Middle East, but I would have expected Israel to have followed a more open, European-style, curriculum.  So I learned something new today.

From the potential quoted above, I'm guessing the problem at hand is either possible bio-solar power cells, or possibly culturing algae for biofuel.  Given the abundance of sun in that part of the world, and the need for self-reliance in energy needs, and a growing population.  Tell me, TheNH7:, did I guess correctly?  Because I can give you directed help to answer those particular questions.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

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