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Topic: Alternative to Phosphate  (Read 4050 times)

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Offline InnovationsRD

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Alternative to Phosphate
« on: October 02, 2014, 06:03:27 PM »
We are looking to develop an effective alternative to phosphate. Used for the cleaning industry.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Alternative to Phosphate
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 07:14:31 PM »
Hard to know where better to put this, so I guess I'll try Chemical Engineering, given you mention industry.

Briefly, its widely known that phosphates are water softeners:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundry_detergent#Other_ingredients  There are other water softeners, and detergents that aren't sensitive to water hardness.  So why you see the need to develop this, I'm at a loss.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline InnovationsRD

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Re: Alternative to Phosphate
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2014, 02:21:09 PM »
We are looking for a completely different, highly effective and environmentally friendly "redo" of the detergent industry. Put simply. I like forums because of their diversity and unfiltered opinion. Phosphates have been phased out and the current product offering does not work.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Alternative to Phosphate
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2014, 09:24:24 PM »
We are looking for a completely different, highly effective and environmentally friendly "redo" of the detergent industry.

Many of the current options address some of these concerns.  Well, address them in as much as they can, given your terms are nebulous buzzwords.

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Put simply. I like forums because of their diversity and unfiltered opinion.

Awesome.  Remember that when you read my answers.

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Phosphates have been phased out and the current product offering does not work.

Can you give us some specific examples of alternative to phosphates that have been tried, and what their specific failings were?
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: Alternative to Phosphate
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2014, 06:23:57 AM »
Phosphates are out of favour presently because they let algae develop too much in rivers and the sea.

Sorry I don't propose a good alternative - I want instead to testify that some washing powders and liquids make me sick, possibly because of their phosphate replacements since they appeared several years ago. Persil pops to my mind, but there are many more. Alone the odour of the washed clothes gives me headaches.

Offline hyte

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Re: Alternative to Phosphate
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2014, 07:15:02 AM »
depending on what application you need it as asked.

http://www.specialchem4cosmetics.com/product-directory/index.aspx?did=0 it's kinda field

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softening

by wikipedia zeolites are for water softening. they are basically clay, nowadays mined or synthetic would guess. whole books are available on the subject.

http://www.specialchem4polymers.com/product-directory/index.aspx just dunno what exactly are you looking for. if for general prepresentation it would maybe be good to find some environmental chemistry and industrial application book or site to start with.

https://www.facebook.com/Che.Engineering?ref=ts&fref=ts this guys torrent also has ullman's encyplopedia in it + others handies.

http://www.e-booksdirectory.com/listing.php?category=323 there's some from various subjects

https://www.google.com/search?q=alternative+to+phosphorus&gws_rd=ssl google search always kinda helpfull .p

and you can try these ones http://www.onlineuniversities.com/blog/2010/03/100-time-saving-search-engines-for-serious-scholars/ :)

..  have specific or narrowed down application or just general .?

Offline hyte

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Re: Alternative to Phosphate
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2014, 07:42:18 AM »
ups.. got little carried away .p

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/89/8904cover.html?featured=1

zeolites - have their own set of properties   
citrates - can be costly       
sodium citrate, polyacrylates and tetrasodium etidronate - as part of the combination mixture.

are in that article at least.
edit: that etidronate is phosphate. is that hardness to replace why shampoos have so much indredients in them including patent laws.

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