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Topic: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)  (Read 4501 times)

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Offline Vargulf

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Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« on: August 18, 2017, 04:15:51 AM »
Hi,
I don't know two of the educts for this synthesis. Can anyone help me please?
Can you also check if the reactants I wrote down are right? (The red marked substances are given.)
Another question I have is how to show that the Carbon Atom, bonding on the azo-group, has a partial double bond?

Offline kriggy

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Re: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2017, 06:11:40 AM »
Those compounds usualy exists in a azo-hydrazo tautomers and usualy the hydrazo form (double bond on carbon and NH) is usualy preffered.

anyway, your intermediate in the middle (the COO-) has one more carbon to it and its probably not realy stable and readily decarboxylates, however, you are on the right track :) What can you use to make amides if not acid? Do you know any other derivatives to use in place of acid?

Offline Vargulf

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Re: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2017, 06:18:39 PM »
Thank you so much. Bause of you I understand the reaction now way better. I found multiple options to make amides (for example making them out of acyl chlorides), but I didn't found any other option to make amides, while regarding the given reactants (1. HNO3, H2SO4/ 2. Zn, HCl).
Do you have an idea, what I could use to make amides, while regarding the given substances (marked in red)?

Offline kriggy

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Re: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2017, 03:37:56 AM »
The conditions you describe are just for the making of the amine. First, its nitrated using nitric and sulfuric acid mixture and then the nitro group is reduced into amino group.
Then you can make the amide from ester such as ethyl acetoacetate (or possibly hydrolyze it to acid and use the acetoacetic acid). How would you make ethylacetoacetate?

Offline rolnor

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Re: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 05:58:11 AM »
Is not an aromatic amine to weak nucleophile to react with alkylester? If using the acid you must work quickly because it is not stable, decarboxylate.

Offline Vargulf

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Re: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 04:47:48 PM »
Thank you so much for your help. Ethyl acetoacetate is made out of ethyl acetate. I tried to write the syntesis again. Hopefully it is right now.

Offline kriggy

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Re: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 02:06:06 AM »
Is not an aromatic amine to weak nucleophile to react with alkylester? If using the acid you must work quickly because it is not stable, decarboxylate.
Thats  probably right, didnt think of that.

Your synthtesis of ethylacetoacetate is wrong. Also, why do you start with propylacetate and then remove themethyl group? It doesnt realy make sense. How do you know it is that step?

Offline Vargulf

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Re: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 04:51:04 PM »
The reaction I wrote, was out of stupidity. I was excited about finding a reaction to make out of 2 ethyl acetate, NaOCH2CH3 and H3O+, ethyl acetoacetate, so I put ethyl acetate in the given format. It was given that I have to remove Methan from the reactant to get the next reactant, so I tried to start with propylacetate.
I'm so sorry, I should have posted the given format right away into this forum.

Offline Vargulf

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Re: Syntesis/Reaction (Educt prediction)
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2017, 05:36:58 PM »
Could someone please help me? I would be very grateful.

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