[Paranoid]

Hi Guys,

This a little unusual question ...

I went to have my AC car system serviced.... And now I'm paranoid ...

The gauge that guy was using bursted a leak and the refregirant was spraying all over running hot engine ... The engine was covered with some oily substance, it smelled like varnish or something ... I evacuated the garage didn't want to inhale that... Leak lasted 60 second or more ..

To make it worse it sprayed near the cabin air intake/ cabin filter while blower was sucking in air, I'm now worried that my ducts in the car are contaminated ( I read that R134A heated creates a toxic acid ? )

Apparently my AC system was over filled as well... Not sure if the overfill and hot engine could create some substance that can contaminate my heating/cooling vents in car - blower was running high and sucking in the vapor.

Not sure if over filled AC is hot enough to created the HF acid or whatever ...
And then while googling this I read about deadly toxic contamination with R20..

I called the shop and he said that he uses R134A made by "Johnsen" looks like it's made in China, hope that is not one of those contaminated gases.

I guess my question is if TETRAFlurethane is dangerus in this situation or fluoric acid ? Should I try to decontaminate my HVAC system ?

Should I be concerned ?

Yeah I'm a little paranoid .

[Borek]

MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for 1,1,1,2,-tetrafluoroethane (which R134A really is) doesn't say anything about known toxicity, which means compound is considered safe. These compounds are highly volatile (actually 1,1,1,2,-tetrafluoroethane is a gas at typical temperatures) so they should evaporate quite quickly.

Even if there were traces of HF produced (which I highly doubt) they are long gone.

Hard to tell anything about the effects o possible contamination. Can you provide a link to the information you found?

[Paranoid]

Hello,

Thank you,

Contact of 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane with flames or hot surfaces in excess of 250 °C (482 °F) may cause vapor decomposition and the emission of toxic gases including hydrogen fluoride and carbonyl fluoride.[24]

I would consider hot surface the engine some parts can get above 250C

And reading further it says that HF gas in contact with moisture makes acid ... And that's my concern .. don't want any acid lol

Sources
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane

As well as Msds says that degradiation of R123A in high heat flames, hot surfaces might create those two gases.

And yes the leak seamed to be more gas then liquid form but just guessing lol, it seemed like a freezing spray, not sure if gas hitting hot surface is high risk or it's more while it's a liquid form.

Thank you

[Borek]

As I said - everything here is highly volatile, even if traces of HF were produced they are long gone. And traces are all that is possible here, amount of the substance that was in contact with the hot surface was quite small - most of it evaporated and evacuated the space without even getting close to the really hot elements. If anything was covering the engine for longer than a few seconds it was definitely not the tetraflurethane.

The only part of the engine that can get hotter than 250°C is the exhaust, most other elements are not hot enough to boil water (100°C).

Wikipedia doesn't say anything about contamination and R20.

[Paranoid]

Thank you, so what you are saying I can pretty much sleep well and not worry that I will be breathing HF acid fumes via my car ventilation system, as they dissipated and mixed with air ?

It was spraying near the exhaust manifold and that would be more then 250C, but again I guess it would just mix with air ..
The amount of R134A that escaped wouldn't make much difference ? The leak seemed pretty good, I could see "dust cloud" and lots of hissing lol

And I guess considering that this is a gas form it wouldn't hang in the car for long anyways


Thank you!

[Borek]

Thank you, so what you are saying I can pretty much sleep well and not worry that I will be breathing HF acid fumes via my car ventilation system, as they dissipated and mixed with air ?

That would be my understanding.

It was spraying near the exhaust manifold and that would be more then 250C, but again I guess it would just mix with air ..

As I wrote - chances are some minute amounts hit the hot surface. Still, we are talking about very low amount and very short contact time.

The amount of R134A that escaped wouldn't make much difference ? The leak seemed pretty good, I could see "dust cloud" and lots of hissing lol

The more the worse, but making a hissing cloud takes just a mL or few of a liquid.

And I guess considering that this is a gas form it wouldn't hang in the car for long anyways

That's exactly what I expect.

[Paranoid]

My estimate would be around 500ml or grams he said according to technican...
But then this big vented building so it's not like 100% of it would be cooking off

Not sure if this large amount or not , in Grand scheme tank has 30lbs

I'm planning to wash engine with some water I guess that's safe from chemical residue point ... ?

Thank you

[Arkcon]

My estimate would be around 500ml or grams he said according to technican...
But then this big vented building so it's not like 100% of it would be cooking off

I think the discussion so far leads us towards a negligible amount remaining unvaporized, a negligible amount of that to react with heat, and be converted to HF, and a negligabil amount of that to remain.

Also, although HF is the nastiest flesh-eating bone dissolving chemical we can basically think of, its a poor hydrogen donor, so not a strong metal-eating acid.  Of which there is a negligible amount.  On a massive amount of steel.

I'm planning to wash engine with some water I guess that's safe from chemical residue point ... ?

Washing engines was trendy years ago, but its generally considered to be a bad idea.  Negligible benefit to de-greasing the engine, risky to damage electrical components, and an ecological burden.  From engine grease, and you know, the contaminant you're worried about, now in a puddle, on a surface you now have to clean up.

Like I said, negligible amounts here, but you assume the surface is possibly much more than negligible contaminated.  OK, I'll bite.  Oh, what to do, what to do -- your plan is, to spread it everywhere out of your control.  Why's that better?

[Paranoid]

Thank you I will sleep better and not write off car lol, I wouldn't sell it to anyone because I would feel terrible thinking that I might make someone sick.

As for was unfortunately little late as I went to local ECO car wash and they cleaned it up, good news is that they re use water via Reverse Osmosis process and water that can't be filtered is being not returned to drain ... So I feel a little bit better.

And yes I guess you are right they didn't pressure wash it just little water spray .. and they covered lots of electronics

I told them that engine was sprayed with PAG oil and they said they that it as oil leak.

Thanks