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Topic: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate  (Read 409 times)

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Offline Babcock_Hall

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Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« on: November 06, 2024, 09:40:34 AM »
We have made CH3SO2CH2P(O)(OCH2CH3)2 multiple times by reacting Oxone with the corresponding sulfide in methanol/water.  We extract from DCM and use the product without further purification (Blumenkopf 1986 and others).  We removed the solvent using rotary evaporation and high vacuum.  Our most recent synthesis had more than 10% more mass than theoretical and showed a broad peak in the H-1 NMR spectrum near the doublet arising from the bridging CH2 group.  The appearance is more amorphous than crystalline.  These observations are entirely unexpected based upon our past experiences.  The only difference of which I am aware is that some of the starting sulfide came from a new bottle from the same manufacturer.  This week we tried dissolving in chloroform and removing the solvent, in the hope of stripping away what might be methanol that was present.  The mass is pretty close to what it was before, and I have not checked the NMR yet.  Does anyone have a suggestion about what to try next?

Offline rolnor

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2024, 01:31:46 AM »
Can it be simply water? Can you run chromatography, TLC?

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2024, 06:13:09 AM »
TLC has not yet shown us a second peak.  We were thinking about running a column using one of our TLC solvent conditions when a colleague suggested dissolving the product in chloroform.  That will be what we try next.

Offline rolnor

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2024, 11:55:25 PM »
Its a very polar compound. Yes, that's a good idea.

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2024, 07:40:06 AM »
I just reread my previous comment, and it was worded poorly.  We tried the chloroform trick about a week ago, and that was unsuccessful.  We have not yet tried a column.

Offline rolnor

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2024, 02:11:06 AM »

To have a purification system is of course very important and this can be time-consuming to develop, but it's a necessity.

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2024, 10:11:03 AM »
We worked out solvent conditions a week or two ago, and PMA and anisaldehyde give adequate staining in TLC, although neither one is great.  We made this compound at least five times previously, and it was always so pure that no column or recrystallization was necessary.  A big mystery is what was different on this occasion, and I don't even have a good hypothesis.  If we are able to purify it, I won't let the lack of a hypothesis trouble me.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 10:27:45 AM by Babcock_Hall »

Offline rolnor

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 01:20:01 AM »

Can you make another batch? It does not look expensive to make?

Offline Babcock_Hall

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 09:28:53 AM »
Yes the sulfone is easy to make, and a new synthesis also occurred to me as possibly being the better choice.  Of course, the same problem may occur twice, whatever it is.  BTW we obtained a H-1 NMR of the starting sulfide, and it looks fine.  We have not yet tried recrystallization, but my bet is that hexanes or heptane would work.

Offline MOTOBALL

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Re: Extra mass and extra H-1 peak in a synthetic intermediate
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 10:32:47 PM »
Two suggestions to determine if the additional mass is due to solvent of crystallization,

1) Send a sample for micro-analysis for C, H and P

2) Heat a weighed amount of sample in a vacuum oven overnight at 50-60 deg; any weight loss will indicate a volatile component (solv. of xtlln or a byproduct/impurity).

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