[Mitch]

Milo brings up some concerns regarding academic internet forums in general. A summary of his quote is below.

I was perusing the Chemical Forums the other day (which is a great site, BTW… I really like it) and was suddenyl struck by the thought that someone in high school or college, who is struggling desperately to pass a chem class, could post a homework question and have it answered. The student would only need to copy the answer and hand it in.

Don’t get me wrong, I love forums. They are a great place to get a variety of opinions on many different topics. Additionally, you can normally find some clever answers to some tough technical questions you may have. This is the epitome of the collaborative spirit of the Internet. It really is!

However, what is to stop a high school student who just does not get chemistry from developing a “forum habit”, asking each and every homework question under different screen names? Hoping to get enough of them answered so that they have a shot at squeaking by. Of course, we all know that without hard work, this poor student will not really learn much…but still, the fact that the temptation is there is kinda scary.

Cheating is not new. Laziness and sloth have been around for a long time, but in today’s world, cheating is easier than ever.

I am not trying to encourage people to avoid helping others that they encounter in various forums… I certainly am going to continue to discuss chemistry with my online peers… Nor am I in any way saying forums themselves are bad (they have certainly helped me many times!) I just hope that the majority of folks who are using the forums are using them for honorable purposes.

In the end, we all must take responsibility for how we learn and the effort we put into a problem.

Link to Milo's Posting: http://chemicalmusings.wordpress.com/2007/01/21/the-silent-killers/

I left some stuff in his comments section, if you have anything to add about how Chemical Forums handles intellectual laziness feel free to post here or also at Milo's latest site.

Mitch[/size]

[Ψ×Ψ]

I think there's a lot of annoyance involved when people expect answers.  Most people do try to work Socratic-style, which takes time and seems to irritate the person who asked the original question.  This often seems to get a final "you guys suck, my test is tomorrow" response.  The downside to trying to lead someone to an answer and making them think through it is that sometimes the people who are trying to help will unintentionally guide someone in the wrong direction.  It gets a little confusing.
Laziness generally prevents me from giving someone more than a conceptual explanation.  I'm not about to do their algebra for them.

[Mitch]

True. I like irritating people though, so I really don't have a problem using it. I think the staff, especially Borek, does a decent job making sure no one is handing out answers and that students are actually attempting the problems before we start guiding them to an answer.

[constant thinker]

I think all of the veteran regulars to the forums use the Socratic method.

As far as misdirection, everyone is human in making mistakes, but it can be confusing like ?*? (which I just found is equal 49,000 according to wiki) to said.

I think It's funny when people get irritated. It's their loss, but it leads to the cliche that teaching a man to fish instead of just giving him the fish is better.

[Ψ×Ψ]

I think all of the veteran regulars to the forums use the Socratic method.

As far as misdirection, everyone is human in making mistakes, but it can be confusing like ?*? (which I just found is equal 49,000 according to wiki) to said.

I think It's funny when people get irritated. It's their loss, but it leads to the cliche that teaching a man to fish instead of just giving him the fish is better.

Seems like it.  The Socratic thing isn't easy, though.  It's better in person.  My boss is especially good at it and has a certain "you're so wrong my head is about to explode" death stare for such occasions.

I SO want a link to this page that says I equal 49,000!  You must send me a link!

My brother's version is better: "Build a man a fire, and you will keep him warm for a day.  Set him on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life."  A bit twisted, though.

[Yggdrasil]

?*? (which I just found is equal 49,000 according to wiki)

I don't know about ?*? having a defined value.  But, I do know that ?*? is always positive and likes to keep it real

[Mitch]

That is one good pick-up line!

[Ψ×Ψ]

it's adorable.  too bad i'm a complex conjugate wavefunction

[enahs]

That is one good pick-up line!

Ehh, not really.
Try "nice shoes" http://youtube.com/watch?v=cJZCZXmRgHA&mode=related&search=
 

[constant thinker]

As far as ?*? = 49,000...

I had no clue what ? meant or even was so I looked it up on wikipedia. Wikipedia says it has a numerical value of 700. Therefore ?=700 (according to wiki). * means multiplication usually. So once you substitute in ? with 700 you get 700*700 which equals 49,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A8

[Ψ×Ψ]

As far as ?*? = 49,000...

I had no clue what ? meant or even was so I looked it up on wikipedia. Wikipedia says it has a numerical value of 700. Therefore ?=700 (according to wiki). * means multiplication usually. So once you substitute in ? with 700 you get 700*700 which equals 49,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A8

? in quantum is a wavefunction.  * usually means multiplication, but in this case it's "take the complex conjugate." now you know

[constant thinker]

When I take a class that mentions that, I'll think back to you post now.  :

[jdurg]

Whenever I'm on any forum that involves academia, I ensure that if someone is asking homework questions that they spit out everything they've tried thus far and ask questions about that.  I NEVER give out answers.  If the original asker is to ignorant/lazy/stupid to figure it out from the path that I lead them down, then they deserve to get it wrong.

What's REALLY fun is when they start pestering you repeatedly and keep demanding answers.  At that point, I give them completely wrong answers and teach them the wrong methods of solving the equations.  I figure they'll learn an important lesson there and when they take the class again the following year they'll know better.   

[Mitch]

I don't know about giving wrong answers...

[Donaldson Tan]

Let's put it this way. When a person needs an answer for his homework, there is no way any academic forum on the internet can answer all his questions before the deadline. What we are good at here, is that we are a great place to discuss chemistry, even among the high school kids. Those who want to learn will still look at our posts and learn from them, even after the deadline has expired.