[andewski]

Greetings all,

I’m a first time poster here, and the last time I had any chemistry/biology was my junior year in college some eight years ago. Also, I’m sure for anyone with a strong science background this will fall into the “dumb question” category.

Here’s my question (and then a little background info): is it possible to change the pH of water without adding anything to it?

Here’s why I’m asking: a couple days ago a good friend of mine tells me that her father bought some kind of quacky water machine that can change the pH of tap water. It’s called “Kangen” water. (And it’s from Japan, of course.) She gave me a DVD to watch that features some obvious cheeseball spewing a bunch of jargon and mumbo-jumbo about platinum plates, molecule clusters and more.

Even with my limited knowledge/experience, I’m 99.99999% sure this is an absolute hoax. But then again, it’s been years since I’ve had any type of science instruction, and I want to make doubly sure my instincts are correct before I confront them about this machine. Now I’d leave well enough alone, but this family actually thinks that this machine can produce alkaline water (with a pH of 9.5) to drink, and acidic water (with a pH of 3 or something like that) that can be used as a disinfectant—which, in my mind, is what makes this thing so dangerous. They shouldn’t be using supposedly “acidic” water to wipe down cutting boards, etc.

I’m at a loss to explain how people that are normally smart consumers (and in good health too) could fall prey to such a ridiculous contraption. The psychology this company uses on their promotional DVD is nothing short of brilliant quackery, complete with warnings “to slowly increase the pH of the water you drink over a few weeks to give your body time to adjust.”

I also intend to get samples of the various waters that this thing can produce (acidic through alkaline) and take them to a local lab. The testing is going to show that they’re all identical, right?

Cheers,

Andy

[Arkcon]

You can get a quick pH testing kit at many stores, so you won't have to bother with the lab.  Tap water can be any pH to start with, and can vary from time to time, so you'll want a control sample that's been caught soon before the machine runs. 

The "molecule clustering" is a pretty common pseudo-scientific blurb, it even sneaks it's way into major peer-reviewed journals.

I don't think it's likely one machine can just create acid and base.  But tap water can come as high as pH 9, with high concentrations of minerals (carbonates and bicarbonates of magnesium and calcium) or even pH 11, but few people care to drink it when it's that basic.

Pure distilled water is usually about pH 5.5 to pH 6, not pH 7, from dissolved CO2.  Boiling will remove CO2 and raise the pH, so you can get a surprise from any water sample.

Also, the food faddists use a different definition of acidic and basic foods than chemists use, so the definitions may change once you read the the advert.

[enahs]

pH also changes slightly with temperature. heh


But no, you can not change the pH substantially without adding anything into it.

Well, let me rephrase that.


If there is already something in the water altering the pH, you could possibly remove that substance which would alter the pH. Tap water does have things in it that can alter the pH, and it is not all that hard to remove them and thus changing the pH. You can not go up or down, only one way, and it is not tunable, it is a function of what was in the water to begin with. And the change will be centered around 7.

Going to their website (I assume it is the same):
http://kangen-water.ws/
It is crap.

First and foremost, almost all the "organic waste" as they call them are all vital and important to boldly function. Sure, like anything, you do not want to much; but you want some of them!

[agrobert]

Where can I get one? 

[andewski]

Where can I get one? 

Unfortunately, this product is part of a multi-level marketing program as well. So I'm sure there's some untrained independent associate in your area willing to sell you one. I'm scared to ask my friend's family about the price of this machine. I'll bet it's over $1,000. When my tap water gets so bad that I can't drink it I guess I'll have to switch to beer.


Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the peace of mind that my hunch was correct. Now for the delicate job of getting these people to see the light . . .