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Topic: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?  (Read 26382 times)

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Offline alexofordummies

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carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« on: March 08, 2009, 09:01:40 PM »
Looking at an allylic free radical, it must be sp2 hybridized otherwise it wouldn't be able to resonate with the C=C next door. Now what if instead of being allylic it has 3 bonds to sp3 or hydrogen species, is it more favorable for that one electron to now sit in an sp3 orbital and act as a lone pair?

Offline alexofordummies

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2009, 09:17:13 PM »
Now that I think about allylic carbanions, I believe what I said above should be correct. Because non allylic carbanions, (similar to non allylic free radicals) are normally sp3 hybridized, only becoming sp2 when it allows them to resonate with their neighbors through the pi system.

Offline alexofordummies

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2009, 09:17:41 PM »
Could someone still verify my logic is correct?

Offline azmanam

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 07:42:39 AM »
carbanions retain sp3 hybridization.  Radicals and carbocations rehybridize to sp2 regardless of neighboring groups.  The only exception is when the carbanion can be stabilized by resonance.  then the carbanion rehybridizes to sp2.  The cyclopentadienyl anion is an example of an sp3 anion rehybridizing.
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Offline aldoxime_amine

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 09:34:54 AM »
The cyclopentadienyl anion is an example of an sp3 anion rehybridizing.

Shouldn't that be sp^2?

Offline azmanam

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 09:45:33 AM »
no.  in the absence of resonance, the anion would be sp3.  Because it can be stabilized by resonance, the anion rehybridizes to sp2.
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Offline Enantiomer

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 09:52:53 AM »
no.  in the absence of resonance, the anion would be sp3.  Because it can be stabilized by resonance, the anion rehybridizes to sp2.
To be fair, wouldn't the chemical almost always be more stable in resonance?  there by making the molecule sp2 hybridized?
I remember a question in organic I on a practice test I had, and the question was whether an oxygen anion (connected to a single carbon) was sp2 or sp3 and it was always sp2 due to the resonance, even when it is in the anion form

Offline aldoxime_amine

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2009, 09:58:56 AM »
no.  in the absence of resonance, the anion would be sp3.  Because it can be stabilized by resonance, the anion rehybridizes to sp2.

But isn't the molecule always in a resonsnce hybrid? so that the anion is in effect sp2, i agree with the previos poster's answer

Offline azmanam

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 10:07:21 AM »
Not necessarily.  Carbon acids with low pka usually have a low pka because the resulting anion is stabilized by resonance.  In that case, the anion will rehybridize to sp2.  But this does not mean every carbanion is resonance stabilized.  In fact, because they are decidedly pseudo tetrahedral (formally trigonal pyramidal), it is possible to create chiral carbanions and use them as nucleophiles to create optically active products.

Read the lede, and this section of wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbanion#Chiral_carbanions
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Offline aldoxime_amine

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 10:18:19 AM »
Not sure if i understood much of what was written, but thanks anyway. :)

Offline macman104

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 11:23:48 AM »
I think what aldoxime is asking is if the anion CAN be stabilized by resonance, will it.  I think it's understood that not all anions are capable of resonating, but if they can, they will.

Offline azmanam

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Re: carbon radicals, sp2 or sp3?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 11:29:16 AM »
In that case, we are in agreement.  If it can be stabilized, it definitely will.  Systems always tend to be as stable as possible. 

Sorry if I misunderstood/was unclear:)
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