November 27, 2024, 03:39:44 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Protic solvent = acid?  (Read 11182 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tangent1.57

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Protic solvent = acid?
« on: August 08, 2009, 11:14:15 PM »
Does a protic solvent equal an acid?  By definition, an acid gives up a H+.  Therefore, my answer is "yes".

Moreover, suppose a compound does NOT give up H+ in water.  However, it gives up H+ in a solution of some other liquid - let's say mercury.  Would you describe this compound as "not being acidic in water, but it is acidic in Hg"? 

Offline Henry

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Protic solvent = acid?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 03:27:16 AM »
Ethanol is a protic solvent. However, it will not protonate water. On the other hand, strong bases can deprotonate ethanol. Acidic behavior is dependent on the pKa values of the acids/bases involved in a reaction.

Offline zxt

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
  • Mole Snacks: +3/-5
Re: Protic solvent = acid?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 04:26:27 AM »
Does a protic solvent equal an acid?  By definition, an acid gives up a H+.  Therefore, my answer is "yes".

Moreover, suppose a compound does NOT give up H+ in water.  However, it gives up H+ in a solution of some other liquid - let's say mercury.  Would you describe this compound as "not being acidic in water, but it is acidic in Hg"? 

Yes, and acid can be defined as either giving up H+ or receiving OH-.

Offline ufalynn88

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
Re: Protic solvent = acid?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 12:08:20 AM »
Not necessarily. Ammonia is protic but it is a base. Protic only refers to the presence of a hydrogen bond...however not all molecules with a hydrogen bond present are going to donate them...thus, not all protic substances are acids.

Offline zxt

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
  • Mole Snacks: +3/-5
Re: Protic solvent = acid?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 01:10:18 AM »
Not necessarily. Ammonia is protic but it is a base. Protic only refers to the presence of a hydrogen bond...however not all molecules with a hydrogen bond present are going to donate them...thus, not all protic substances are acids.

Ammonia is protic? It receives H+ because of its lone electron pair while ammonium is acid because NH4+ ::equil::NH3+H+.

Offline kd.gns

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-1
Re: Protic solvent = acid?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 01:48:27 PM »
Not necessarily. Ammonia is protic but it is a base. Protic only refers to the presence of a hydrogen bond...however not all molecules with a hydrogen bond present are going to donate them...thus, not all protic substances are acids.

Ammonia is protic? It receives H+ because of its lone electron pair while ammonium is acid because NH4+ ::equil::NH3+H+.

I think you have just answered your own question by finding a contradiction, you have just identified that Ammonia is both protic and not an acid. Also, your definition of acid is incomplete, not all acids gives up H+, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid#Definitions_and_concepts

Offline zxt

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
  • Mole Snacks: +3/-5
Re: Protic solvent = acid?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 02:23:17 PM »
I think you have just answered your own question by finding a contradiction, you have just identified that Ammonia is both protic and not an acid. Also, your definition of acid is incomplete, not all acids gives up H+, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid#Definitions_and_concepts

Thank you. And I find thishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protic_solvent

Quote
Also, your definition of acid is incomplete, not all acids gives up H+
see:
Quote
and acid can be defined as either giving up H+ or receiving OH-.


Offline kd.gns

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-1
Re: Protic solvent = acid?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 03:50:59 PM »

Yes, and acid can be defined as either giving up H+ or receiving OH-.

I did read that, please look at Lewis Acids and Bases for the counter to that statement.

Offline ufalynn88

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
Re: Protic solvent = acid?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 10:05:02 PM »
I know that there are multiple definitions of acid. Edit:: I used the BRONSTED/LOWRY definition as it is most commonly used in organic chemistry.

Sponsored Links