[baba484]

Hi folks,

I am looking for a chemical solution or compound or element that reacts with Carbon Dioxide/Monoxide and or Sulphur Dioxide/Monoxide.

For some strange reason soap keeps leaping into my mind as an agent (blame school days on that one!).  My mind is a bit jumbled at the best of times but bear with me.

The reaction caused must be non toxic if possible.  I woud need to know rough rates as well so I can make mental pictures, for example:  If 1 cubic metre of CO2 reacted with solution/compound/element "X" it would reduce the 1 cubic metre by Y% over a period of Z hours/days.

I appreciate that this is all very iffy questioning but I need to know that such a thing exists, I assume that it does so this is the place to ask.

Many thanks in advance of your patience and potential answers.

baba

[billnotgatez]

Trying to get rid of green house gasses the easy way.
There is no free lunch when it comes to thermodynamics.

[baba484]

Hi Bill,

That's the ticket!!!  Yes of course I am but I need to know a reactive agent for those gases but I'm too dim to know the answer, that's where you guys (and gals) with the huge massive brains step in.  You give me the answers I'll nail the thing together!

[typhoon2028]

sodium hydroxide

[baba484]

Thanks Typhoon,

Thats a start!! How about percentages and timings for reaction? If pumice like rock were crushed into little pieces, soaked in this liquid and Carbon Dioxide/Monoxide passed through them would the liquid react?

[billnotgatez]

There is no free lunch when it comes to thermodynamics.

When I wrote this I was being a little too obtuse.

Running the chemical processes you are asking for and suggest would likely create more carbon dioxide than you could sequester.
Or, the energy put in is far greater than the energy gained.

[ note - you might ask the admin to move this thread to
Chemical Forums > General Forums > Chem Central - The Chemical News Source > Energy & Climate Challenge ]

[baba484]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for hanging around this thread with pointers (please ask whomever on my behalf to move the thread wherever it's best posted) however I am now more confused..

I asked for something that absorbs/acts with CO or CO2 (ditto the sulphur) and Typhoon gave a response which indicated to me that Typhoons solution (to the problem, that's a weak chemistry joke by a non chemistry guy) would interact with and therefore chemically alter the Mono and Dioxides.

You have further stated that I would have more Mono/Dioxides than I started with? I am pretty niave regards chemistry but your answer confuses me somewhat.

I appreciate your and Typhoons input (great value thank you) but please just tell me yes/no this (or that) would remove Mono and/or Dioxides at such and such a rate/percentage.  It seems like I am asking for a lot of things when in actual fact I am asking for generalities, a picture building effort that's all.

Respect to you and those of your ilk

baba

[billnotgatez]

I am a citizen scientist and as not as learned as many on the forum. But, my goal is to support others doing science and therefor responded to you. Unfortunately, I did not have much time and did so with too short an answer. I am going to make this simple as possible but not dumb it down. Also, others more knowledgeable than I may make comment that would adjust what I say.

Most chemical reactions attempt to go from a less stable state to a more stable state. In some cases the reactions go back and forth and we get a mixture of reactants and products. In other cases the reactions go forward and no reverse unless you apply more energy to get the reverse reaction. Sometimes a catalytic process is needed to make the reverse reaction happen.

There is a tendency for elements to combine in certain ways. Two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom make water. One carbon atom and one oxygen atom make carbon monoxide, which can become more stable by combining with another oxygen atom to make carbon dioxide. Magnesium and oxygen will combine to make magnesium oxide. In the above cases it takes energy to make them back into original elements of other compounds combined with other elements that are less stable.

Carbon dioxide is fairly stable and to find a process more stable compound is a challenge. One I can think of is in nature. Carbon dioxide will combine with water to form an acid. That acid reacts with calcium compounds in the soil, which forms calcium carbon compounds. You see these as stalactites and stalagmites in caves. I used Google to find this page.
http://quiz2.chem.arizona.edu/preproom/Demo%20Files/lime_water_carbon_dioxide.htm

The quantity on the earth of elements that form similar reactions as above is far smaller than the amount of carbon and oxygen we have on earth. Also mining the calcium compounds would create more carbon dioxide than we would use up in a reaction between the carbon dioxide and calcium.

There is no free lunch.

[baba484]

Thanks Bill,

Picture is forming nicely now.  So CO2 is essentially a stable compound (gas) and doesn't like to be a participant in anything that will upset that stability, ok.

What about Typhoons' Sodium Hydroxide?  Wouldn't CO/CO2 find that an appealing snack to get into?  Would Sodium Hdroxide form any kind of reaction, even if it was only 1% of my original volume of gas?

I do not seek any free lunch in this regard whatsoever, I merely wish to know that yes, sodium Hydroxide will (or wont) interact with CO/CO2 and it does it quite readily/freely or it has to be forced to do so.  Rates, percentages of exchange would be nice to know too.  Don't sweat it though, don't need specifics as such just ballpark figures as percentages, that's all.

I appreciate your frustration with me and this quest but I picture and deal in tiny bits of info, don't wish to be an expert in chemistry, just pictures.  Please bear with me, thanks.

baba

[DrCMS]

Yes carbon dioxide readily reacts with sodium hydroxide.

However,  it requires energy to make sodium hydroxide.   Sodium hydroxide is made by electrolysis of sodium chloride.  As most electricity is produced from burning fossils fuels that produces carbon dioxide.

[baba484]

Thanks Doc,

I'm almost there mental picture wise.  Sodium Hydroxide I assume is a readily available compound/solution especially industrially speaking.

All I need now to complete my mental picture is rate of reaction and quantity of exchange (volume for volume).  5ml of Sodium Hydroxide will absorbe/react with whatever (insert ballpark figure here) quantity of CO2 sort of thing, roughly speaking.

Again thanks for your patience.

baba

PS I appreciate your acknowledgment that this is really a circular quest in taming the CO2 beast with a solution that requires CO2 to produce it, the irony is not lost on me.

[typhoon2028]

I don't know what exactly is trying to be accomplished?  From the original post, I didn't read anything about trying to reduce overall greenhouse gases.  I read the problem as trying to scrub CO2, CO, & SO2. 

I can't really comment on cost or feasability of using sodium hydroxide, because I do not know the amounts/flow rates of CO2,CO, or SO2.  The scrubber could be designed different ways depending on the the application.

Mentally, I am thinking a packed stripping column with highly concentrated NaOH feed water.  Search stripping column. 

As for fossil fuels being need to produce NaOH, that may be partly true.  If we increased nuclear, wind, solar, hydroelectric,...etc power production, fossil fuel consumption would be down.

[baba484]

Hi Typhoon,

Thanks for your reply, I shall indeed search stripping columns once I have posted.

In the meantime, just to clarify and frame my questioning a bit.  Cost is of zero importance and I do not need nor seek any information on any costing for anything whatsoever, zero.  These are purely questions based on chemistry principles, nothing more.

Yes I am looking into scrubbers for CO2 CO SO and SO2 (though on wiki only CO2 is classed as a greenhouse gas for some reason).  Sodium Hydroxide was the first answer I was given so I am running with that answer at the moment as a benchmark sort of thing, I am happy with that answer.

My only remaining question on this topic is (drum roll maestro, if you please...) If I were to introduce say 10ml of Sodium Hydroxide into a CO2 environment would that convert only 10ml of CO2, would it be more, would it be less?  What would 10ml of CO2 weigh and what is its volume in m3?  Please note that the answers can be for a static environment if need be (perfect conditions) i.e. a sealed container containing as much CO2 as you want then the Sodium Hydroxide is introduced to react.  Sorry I would also need to know roughly how long the process would take until the 10ml is spent (again roughly), an hour, a day, a week, that sort of thing.

All I ask is very rough ballpark figures I do not request anyone work it out for me (apologies as I am unable to do this myself) just rough figures.

Many many thanks for your indulgence and time, it is greatly appreciated and I apologies unreservedly if my questioning is so incredibly niiave, this is simply because this is not my "thing" it's yours.

baba

[baba484]

Errr....bumpy *Ignore me, I am impatient* *Ignore me, I am impatient*!

Come on guys (an' dolls) this isn't to much to ask is it?  If I haven't phrased the question properly I apologies but surely you all get the gist of it?