November 29, 2024, 12:48:35 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Phenyllithium storage and handling  (Read 7961 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline limpet chicken

  • mad scientist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 750
  • Mole Snacks: +49/-27
  • Gender: Male
  • Vote Limpet for supreme emperor of the new order
Phenyllithium storage and handling
« on: August 30, 2005, 12:48:49 AM »
I may be doing a few ahem, experiments, using phenyllithium sometime in the not-so-distant future, but I am concerned about the handling and storage of the stuff, as AFAIK its pretty pyrophoric, although I have never actually used or made it before.

Just how touchy is it? does it need to be handled under a nitrogen atmosphere like say, NaBH4 or pyrophoric lead nanopowder? I have read of some non-pyrophoric preperations, namely a 20% solution of PhLi in dibutyl ether.

Problem is, I have no source for dibutyl ether, does the Williamson ether synthesis work for ethers other than diethyl ether? or will Et2O work well enough here?

What about venting carbon dioxide into the handling tank (think square fishtank converted into closed off glovebox ;D)

Any tips from those who have worked with PhLi before or work with it on a day to day basis?

The light blinds
So behold darkness as our new light
In our darkness we can see
So with others blindness
We take flight.

Offline movies

  • Organic Minion
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1973
  • Mole Snacks: +222/-21
  • Gender: Male
  • Better living through chemistry!
Re:Phenyllithium storage and handling
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2005, 01:52:02 AM »
Phenyl lithium will react with CO2 to make benzoic acid.  You need to handle it under dry nitrogen or argon.  Diethyl ether is an appropriate solvent, but it has to be rigorously dried.  Plus, diethyl ether isn't great for storage because of its low boiling point.  Something like tetrahydrofuran is better.  PhLi is way more sensitive than NaBH4 and is more on par with a Grignard reagent (probably a little more reactive than a Grignard, actually).

Offline limpet chicken

  • mad scientist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 750
  • Mole Snacks: +49/-27
  • Gender: Male
  • Vote Limpet for supreme emperor of the new order
Re:Phenyllithium storage and handling
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2005, 01:59:04 AM »
Unfortunately, Et2O is whats available at the moment, I don't have a source for THF that ships to the UK (please PM me if you know of any), I probably won't end up storing any PhLi for any serious time, a few months at maximum, if it isn't all used by then, I will have fun shooting out the container from a distance with my rifle ;D

(Hey, no worse than teeing off with lumps of sodium metal...*looks at Jdurg*)
The light blinds
So behold darkness as our new light
In our darkness we can see
So with others blindness
We take flight.

Offline jdurg

  • Banninator
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1366
  • Mole Snacks: +106/-23
  • Gender: Male
  • I am NOT a freak.
Re:Phenyllithium storage and handling
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 02:21:32 PM »
Hehe.   ;D  Using dietheyl ether would probably be a very BAD thing to do since it readily forms peroxides and over time those strongly oxidizing peroxides will react internally with your strong reducing phenlylithium and result in a really vicious fire.
"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists

Offline limpet chicken

  • mad scientist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 750
  • Mole Snacks: +49/-27
  • Gender: Male
  • Vote Limpet for supreme emperor of the new order
Re:Phenyllithium storage and handling
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2005, 06:34:10 PM »
Hmm, I guess then, I will make it on an as-needed basis, in Et2O, and make exactly how much I need for the synthesis, any left, I would just blow away from a safe distance.
The light blinds
So behold darkness as our new light
In our darkness we can see
So with others blindness
We take flight.

Sponsored Links