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Topic: Polycyclic tetraaza frenzy?  (Read 3383 times)

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Offline Enthalpy

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Polycyclic tetraaza frenzy?
« on: January 15, 2011, 12:54:19 PM »
Could that molecule be any feasible?

I stumbled on it in a seemingly harmless brochure by Huntsman about ethyleneamines, on page numbered 32 (40/76 in Pdf), left drawing:
http://www.huntsman.com/performance_products/Media/Ethyleneamines_brochure_Huntsman_Ethyleneamines.pdf
but you get it faster here, including 3D displays:
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2372#p30134

The odd thing looks desirable as a rocket fuel:
- From its aspect, it should ignite by the mere rumour of a nearing N2O4;
- The computed heat of formation would make it 4s better than monomethyl hydrazine;
- Density estimated by Chemsketch would be 2160kg/m3 (is that believable?)

But: do you expect it to be stable? In tons or hundreds or thousands of tons, even nitromethane and propyne are considered too dangerous. But Syntin has been used:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntin

And: how difficult could it be to produce? In tons or hundreds or thousands of tons, of course. 1M$ recurring costs are still affordable.
Huntsman's brochure only tells: "Some representative compounds that are the products of the reaction of EDA and formaldehyde are shown below (ref 163, 164)"
and the refs are
163 : Dale, J.; Sigvartsen, T. Acta Chem. Scand., 1991, 45, 1064.
164 : Krassig, H. Makromol. Chem., 1955, 17, 77-130.

Your comments please!

Offline Enthalpy

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Offline 408

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Re: Polycyclic tetraaza frenzy?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 03:28:10 PM »
Chemsketch densities are usually quite wrong.  For a CHNO cpd it calculated a density of 3.something g cm-3.

This got me all excited, but when I made it, the crystal density was 1.8 or so....

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: Polycyclic tetraaza frenzy?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 10:09:57 PM »
I suspected much so, about estimated densities. Sometimes Chemsketch is slightly low, but at aza rings, it's way too high, and still claims a narrow error bar.

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And about the beast's feasibility? I have exactly zero intuition (not my occupation) about that. Throw everything in a pot, stir a bit, scoop the desired thingy? Or let first produce the various unobtainium-unaffordium catalysts, begin with a train of reagents, make an offering to Paracelse's spirit, observe the Moon phase, operate in ultraclean secondary vacuum adding UV and ultrasound and radiowaves and gammas, obtain after three months and 50 steps a quantity that spectrometers don't identify for sure?

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