December 22, 2024, 07:53:57 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Qustion about leaving groups and bases  (Read 3234 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline invain

  • Very New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Qustion about leaving groups and bases
« on: April 02, 2011, 12:38:04 AM »
If I had a nucleophile, say the conjugate base of benzene, and a molecule with a bromide, and a primary alcohol. Would the nucleophile attack the carbon bound to the bromide, or the proton on the alcohol?

If it's hard to follow I can try to make a picture. Basically I want to add Isobutanol to benzene using a bromide leaving group. (2-bromo-2-methyl-propanol). Possible? I don't know if the alcohol would act like an acid or would the bromide leave first.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 01:22:24 AM by invain »

Offline sjb

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3653
  • Mole Snacks: +222/-42
  • Gender: Male
Re: Qustion about leaving groups and bases
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 06:45:05 AM »
If I had a nucleophile, say the conjugate base of benzene, and a molecule with a bromide, and a primary alcohol. Would the nucleophile attack the carbon bound to the bromide, or the proton on the alcohol?

If it's hard to follow I can try to make a picture. Basically I want to add Isobutanol to benzene using a bromide leaving group. (2-bromo-2-methyl-propanol). Possible? I don't know if the alcohol would act like an acid or would the bromide leave first.

Perhaps look into pKa or similar. My feeling is that the benzene anion will act as a base rather than a nucleophile, and if you mix these all you'll get is benzene, and  2-bromo-2-methylpropoxide.

Offline Honclbrif

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 659
  • Mole Snacks: +58/-10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Qustion about leaving groups and bases
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 10:43:50 AM »
Usually if you are considering a carbon nucleophile, its basic character will dominate over its nucleophilic character if it has a chance to grab an acidic proton. In general, proton transfer is a very fast process. Is there some sort of group you could add to the alcohol oxygen in place of the proton which would be able to withstand the nucleophile, but could be easily removed when you are done with the reaction?
Individual results may vary

Offline invain

  • Very New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Qustion about leaving groups and bases
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 11:49:02 AM »
Thank you for the replies.

Another questions: Both reactants are soluble in water; If I used aqueous solution, wouldn't I need to buffer the pH pretty high so the benzene anion isn't protonated? If so, would I still need to worry about a protecting group on the alcohol, since it should be deprotonated as well?

Offline Honclbrif

  • Chemist
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 659
  • Mole Snacks: +58/-10
  • Gender: Male
Re: Qustion about leaving groups and bases
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 08:09:43 AM »
Thank you for the replies.

Another questions: Both reactants are soluble in water; If I used aqueous solution, wouldn't I need to buffer the pH pretty high so the benzene anion isn't protonated? If so, would I still need to worry about a protecting group on the alcohol, since it should be deprotonated as well?

You're going to have to brush up on pKa.
Individual results may vary

Offline jake.n

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-1
Re: Qustion about leaving groups and bases
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 07:59:11 PM »
I agree with the sentiment that a phenyllithium or similar benzene nucleophile will grab a proton before displacing the bromide of your electrophile.  You could possibly use 2 equivalents of base (deprotonating both species) or look into palladium cross-coupling for this type of reaction.

And yes, look at your acid/base chemistry to answer your question about using an aqueous solvent.

Sponsored Links