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Topic: Crude Glycerol and carbon rich (char) organics?  (Read 2744 times)

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Offline ElectroBod

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Crude Glycerol and carbon rich (char) organics?
« on: August 08, 2012, 06:40:54 AM »
Can anyone advise on reacting what is a waste product of BioDiesel with the potential to create a useful/burnable liquid fuel?

I have little understanding nof the chemistry (as is obviously clear!) but having plenty of practically valueless goo to 'upgrade' and it contains three hydroxyl groups  I had an idea that reacting with free carbon might be the way to go....

Just a thought! Please excuse my naivety.
Thanks.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Crude Glycerol and carbon rich (char) organics?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 07:32:45 AM »
Glycerol is a useful industrial chemical.  Purifying it from the reaction mixture can be a bit expensive 'tho.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline ElectroBod

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Re: Crude Glycerol and carbon rich (char) organics?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 08:58:41 AM »
Glycerol is a useful industrial chemical.  Purifying it from the reaction mixture can be a bit expensive 'tho.
Yes. I did some searching on the uses and chemical processes that it can be used for prior to asking.  One of the apparently one of the most straightforward chemical routes I found was converting it to propylene-glycol which useful in antifreeze.

I ask because it came to my attention that a place I've been working has waste glycerol and loads of old pallets/wood,etc (as do all their neighbours) and I had an idea that there might be a way to combine these unwanted organics into something useful with a little thought (and some 'free' heat/process steam/whatever)...
 
I'd like to teach myself the basics of organic chemistry because I'm now involved in projects that are connected to it (but only on the control-side), but unfortunately I'm not in a position to ask too many questions of those 'in the know' but have picked up just enough to want to get a better understanding.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Crude Glycerol and carbon rich (char) organics?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 09:41:31 AM »
This has come up before, but the discussion got lost.  Basically, some home bio-diesel maker asked what to do with NaOH methanol containing waste.  And I told her to pretend she was a petroleum manufacturer -- she should burn some of her biodiesel to generate heat to distill the water, methanol, and glycerol off from a concentrated solution of spent NaOH and soaps.  She should quantify what goes into the still, and what goes out.  She can sell the glycerol, reuse the methanol, discharge the pure water (checking first what the environmental requirements would be, verify that the waste meets those requirements, and document those facts) and store, warehouse and eventually pay a waste collector to dispose of the waste salts responsibly, again, documenting the status of the waste, and her own compliance.  This is why petroleum products are expensive.  Obviously, an experimental production of bio-diesel doesn't need all of this, but if you're going to compare the cost effectiveness of the process, these are costs that you can't ignore.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline ElectroBod

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Re: Crude Glycerol and carbon rich (char) organics?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 08:03:05 AM »
Basically, some home bio-diesel maker asked what to do with NaOH methanol containing waste.  And I told her to pretend she was a petroleum manufacturer...

Yes, that's not too far from the kind of thing I had started considering.
Although, as you very wisely point out having some ballpark of the cost effectiveness is imperative if going beyond an experimental stage.

But, at this stage, I'm as interested in getting a better understanding of the chemistry theory - and I'd just like to know if anyone can point me in the right direction on to calculate the kind of reactions that could involve Glycerol and say brown (low temps) charcoal - with charcoal estimated (apparently) to be C7H4O.

I don't if or how some or all of those C's in charcoal could grab some of the O's off those hydroxyl groups, etc. Also, clearly, I have absolutly no idea what condition (temp, pressure, catalyst, etc) could push this balance in a useful direction, but I would appreciate a couple of clues! ...Thanks.

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