November 24, 2024, 06:15:58 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: How to complete this reaction?  (Read 4658 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dynamo22

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
How to complete this reaction?
« on: November 10, 2012, 06:49:32 PM »
Have to do this reaction without any other possible isomers being produced throughout the reaction. I was trying to add CH3 first, then throwing on SO3 (para) to the CH3, adding Cl, removing the SO3, adding H2CrO4 to make the carboxylic acid out of the CH3, then acylating with ketone. But, wouldn't the Cl direct the ketone o/p to itself? I am having a hard time trying to determine what order or combination of directing effects to use to complete this reaction without producing any other isomers. Any hints/help would be much apprecaited, thanks!

Offline discodermolide

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5038
  • Mole Snacks: +405/-70
  • Gender: Male
    • My research history
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2012, 07:01:52 PM »
How would you have put 1) the methyl group on, without forming isomers 2) how would you have put the SO3 group on and then removed it?
Development Chemists do it on Scale, Research Chemists just do it!
My Research History

Offline Dynamo22

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 07:10:15 PM »
I think he assumes the CH3 would add to one spot only in the reaction unless you try putting it on twice. Remove the SO3 with hot dilute H2SO4.

Offline discodermolide

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5038
  • Mole Snacks: +405/-70
  • Gender: Male
    • My research history
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 07:12:18 PM »
Do you not think that alkyl groups are activating? Therefore you will get positional isomers formed.
How does one remove the sulphonate with H2SO4?
Development Chemists do it on Scale, Research Chemists just do it!
My Research History

Offline Dynamo22

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 07:21:22 PM »
I apologize for the SO3, its actually SO3H, my mistake. Not sure if that changes anything. But, my professor wrote the book for our course and shows in a Friedel-Crafts Alkylation only one CH3 adding. Reagents would be CH3Cl/AlCl3

Offline discodermolide

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5038
  • Mole Snacks: +405/-70
  • Gender: Male
    • My research history
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 07:26:11 PM »
As far as I am aware upon adding one alkyl group you make the ring more active towards the addition of more alkyl groups.
To try and avoid the formation of positional isomers would it not be better to start by adding a deactivator?
Development Chemists do it on Scale, Research Chemists just do it!
My Research History

Offline Dynamo22

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 07:36:18 PM »
Agreed, when adding a deactivator you can push that Cl to the meta position. But how do you add either the carboxylic acid or ketone para to the deactivating group with Cl pushing any group ortho/para to it?

Offline discodermolide

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5038
  • Mole Snacks: +405/-70
  • Gender: Male
    • My research history
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 07:39:43 PM »
What would happen if you chlorinated first and then alkylated?
Development Chemists do it on Scale, Research Chemists just do it!
My Research History

Offline Dynamo22

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 09:43:18 PM »
I think you would get a mixture of o/p alkylated products.

Offline orgopete

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Mole Snacks: +213/-71
    • Curved Arrow Press
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 10:36:54 PM »
In the original scheme, Friedel-Crafts acylation reactions are sensitive to electron withdrawing groups. I suggest you begin with an acylation, then you can direct the additions from there. Hint, a cyanide can also be converted to a carboxylic acid.
Author of a multi-tiered example based workbook for learning organic chemistry mechanisms.

Offline Dynamo22

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
  • Mole Snacks: +1/-0
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2012, 09:27:28 AM »
Seems reasonable, how do you not disturb the ketone when converting the cyanide group to a carboxylic acid?

Offline orgopete

  • Chemist
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Mole Snacks: +213/-71
    • Curved Arrow Press
Re: How to complete this reaction?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2012, 01:58:29 AM »
It will be okay in aqueous acid.
Author of a multi-tiered example based workbook for learning organic chemistry mechanisms.

Sponsored Links