[green-goblin]

green-goblin, how do you expect me to answer any question in O.Chem when it's all about memorizing, not to mention that it lacks proof?

You don't memorize in physical chem! Wow you worked out all the thermodynamics equations on your own, I’m impressed. You related to Gibbs?

In all areas of chemistry you learn rules which you have to have to memorize, you then apply these rules to problems so you can solve them. When you start doing some retro analysis you will see this applies just as much in organic as it does in physical.

Unless you’re the one doing the research and making the rules, which you’re not quite doing yet, all you are doing is memorizing.

[Hunt]

You don't memorize in physical chem! Wow you worked out all the thermodynamics equations on your own, I’m impressed. You related to Gibbs?

I'm not sure where you got that from. I didn't even bother mention physical chemistry. Oh and you seem to take this too much personal ... if you're an organic chemist, then it's pretty much understandable, just take it east mate

In all areas of chemistry you learn rules which you have to have to memorize, you then apply these rules to problems so you can solve them. When you start doing some retro analysis you will see this applies just as much in organic as it does in physical.

Unless you’re the one doing the research and making the rules, which you’re not quite doing yet, all you are doing is memorizing

So you're actually saying that deriving equations, solving differential equations, proving relations, and working out solutions are similar to memorizing the common names of carbon compounds in Organic Chemistry. There's interesting , I must say, and your logic seems to be very similar to the Medical students'.

Using your logic, I can conclude that Mathematics and Biology are just the same because afterall Mathemticians tend to memorize few formulas in geometry and analysis, right?

[Hunt]

Mark Kness, it's not the students' nor the instructor's fault. It's the material itself. Organic Chemistry just uses a few rules other areas of Chemistry as well as Physics, stamps the equations without even bothering explaining. Then the 'predictions' start with chemical rxns mechanism. Organic chemistry is like doing Physics in an extremely qualitative sense, it's more like an art to me. Even our Analytical Chemistry professor agrees that Organic chemistry is silly.

[green-goblin]

So you're actually saying that deriving equations, solving differential equations, proving relations, and working out solutions are similar to memorizing the common names of carbon compounds in Organic Chemistry. There's interesting , I must say, and your logic seems to be very similar to the Medical students'

No memorizing common names of carbon compounds is the same as say, memorizing the definitions of enthalpy of formation and all that jazz.
Deriving equations, solving differential equations, proving relations, and working out solutions would be on the same level as an organic chemistry being shown a drug proposed by some fancy computer program which has never been seen before, and through reterosynthetic analysis be able to come up with a twenty step synthesis to make it.  Organic chemists don’t have to learn compounds names, if you had two organic chemists one would be able to look at a brand new compound for the first time and give the other one a name so that he could understand the structure exactly.

I’m just saying, your in your first year and probably haven’t had much organic experience, in which case it’s a bit of a strong statement to say that  organic chemistry is the lowest form of scientific level. It may be in the first year but you should give it more of a chance. Physical chemistry (I known you didn’t mention it in particular, I just assumed) isn’t a get a great deal harder in the last year as it is in the first, organic chemistry does get harder.

Btw, I’m not organic chemist, probally more into physical chem
 

i just like a good debate. At the end of the day it's each to there own.

[Hunt]

You're right Goblin, my statement may have been a bit harsh, and I should have resorted to stressing on the importance of improving Organic Chemistry, at least according to me. Yet You can't convince me that O.Chem is gonna change for me in the 2nd or 3rd year, this is how it has been with me even since highschool.