[Ernest-O]

Hey all of you..

I am at the moment trying to make some good "fuel" for af Fountain that can be used indoors. Therefore i have chosen to use NitroCellulose.. But as you might know, this is fastburning, and to lower the burningtime, i am trying to make the NC to a hard material. I found some information about NC could be made to this, by "dissolve" it in Acetone (propanon) or a solution of Ethylether and Ethanol in a 2:1 condition.
I made some tests with this, and the acetone is the easiest way, but doesnt give me a good result, and a take a lot of time to evaporate all the acetone from det dissolved NC.

then something weird  happend when i tried with the Ether-Alchohol solution, because the first time a tried it out evertything happend PERFECT.. the NC nerly touched the solution before being dissolved into a Kolloid solution... I found this realy great, and wanted to try it out again, but the next time i could even make the NC become dissolved in the Ether-Alchohol Solution.. I the found some information about that the percentage of Nitro groups on the Cellulose molekyles, has a very important thing to say. It has to be between 10 and 12,2 % to be soluble at all.. but i have accuratly meassured the Nitro Degree of my NC, and it is about 2,26 Nitro groups per. cellulose molekyle.

Why is it that i cant get the NC to be dissolved in my Ether-Alchohol solution, and get that great result again ? What factors is important to take care of to make it work?
Why is it exactly that it is an Ethylether-Ethanol solution that can dissolve NC ? And why is it that the amount of Nitrogroups is to important?

Best Regards, Steffen Ernesto Kristensen, Denmark

[HP]

Nitrocellulose is a man made polymer kind of modification of the natural polymer - cellulose. The modification of cellulose to nitrocellulose is done with HNO3/H2SO4 as nitric acid react with the OH groups of cellulose backkbone forming ester - nitrate of cellulose and thats why the proper name this polymer when the 3OH groups react with HNO3 is cellulose tri nitrate - kind of powerful brezent explosive(cellulose trinitrate was found accidently in 1846 by the swiss chemist Christian Shonbein - the inventor of the ozone, this discovery happened at the kitchen of the chemist where his wife has  abondened  him of making any experiments! But he availed when his wife went on market to make his home experiments: Shonbein spilled some mixture of acids and as by his words he grasped his wife's cotton apron to suck up and to erase the traces..Then when he hanged the apron on the stove it happened Puf and it get disapeared!   After that the hystory of the first man made plastic - the so known celluloid became with discovery of pyroxiline. Pyroxyline which is not fully nitrated cellulose and which as found by the french scientist Luis Nikola Menar and by the same time independently by the US student in medicine G. Meinard - strange coincidence in the names:) can readily dissolve in a mixture of ethylether/ethanol forming solution. This solution after evaporating solvents form flexible film known as colodii which used in medicine for wound covering..But the pyroxiline adventures were at the very beginning...Pyroxyline alone is a britle substance but the english chemist Alexander Parkis found that if it is disolved in ether/ethanol and then adding some amount of camphor and after evaporation the solvents the residue is a solid can be formed in heating! And so it was the first man made plastic - the year was 1865. The camphor which give the nitrocellulose plastic properties was the first used plastificator in practice. At the beginning of 60's it was offered a price of 10000$ for this who found material which to replace the elephant bone in making billard balls. Then in 1869 the american inventor Wesley Hiat found that the Parkis matherial is very proper for that used and he succeed in making the balls by it. He called this material celluloid.
Hope this is enough for you to find out much by your problem
Best,
HP

[HP]

Also solutions of nitro cellulose in ether/ethanol are not colloid solution but like most of the polymer solutions these are real solutions with no phase separation and agregation or micellas formaton.

[Ernest-O]

Hey HP..

Thanks for the very interresting reply. Great text with both chemistry and a historically background information.

I'll try to use some your information in my search of how to make my "accidentially" Celloid-Plastic

If i happen to get some more questions, i hope it is okay that i write them to you in this post.


Regards, Steffen Ernesto

[hmx9123]

A few things of note:

- I believe that HP is referring to ping-pong balls, which sometimes have nitrocellulose.

- Nitrocellulose is used in indoor fireworks as an oxidizer and fuel, although most of its formulations are not nearly as commonly widespread as the traditional fireworks--perhaps because many of these are patented

- Be careful with the nitrocellulose--remember it still is a high explosive (although lower %N will be a little less dangerous)

- Commercially, nitrocellulose is made from cellulose fiber that is ground up with a cutting machine; I believe that the finished product is as well and thereby mechanically turned into a packable form

- If you are compressing NC into fountains, remember to NOT ram the material, as NC can detonate under shock.  Use a press if you are doing this.  Make sure you exhaust all sources for safety of this material--and this one can be a bit touchy as far as static, flame and heat are concerned, although since it is a HE, you need to be careful with impact, too.

[Ernest-O]

Hey there..

Okay.. i am  being a little carefull, but i am not using the NC on its normal form.. i am trying to turn it in to a hardened fuel, that is containing titanium dust, so that it is making sparkles..

[HP]

 Hiat's inventions with NC is for first as matherial for making billard balls...