[csdav]

Hi all,

This is probably off topic, but I am not sure who to ask and this seems like a good place to find expert opinions.

About a month ago we had a leak in roof of our garage during a heavy rainfall, and rainwater poured into a bunch of boxes where we had stored some old stuff.

When I cleaned up the mess after this heavy rainfall, I discovered that one of these boxes there was a laptop battery from an old dell D430 that had a hole in its plastic casing. This was an old battery that I was supposed to return to my employer for proper recycling. So I set it aside, and last week while cleaning up the garage, my girlfriend noticed that the battery case had "grown" some mold like substance.

Mindlessly (and because of my OCD), I asked her if she could clean it because I was supposed to return the battery. So she put on some nitrile gloves and used our garden
faucet and a bucket to clean up the battery. While doing this she splashed some drops of water that had been in contact with the battery on her arm, her legs, and clothes.

After the process she sealed the battery into a plastic bag, removed her gloves and washed her hands.

Later that day, I began to worry (as I said, I have OCD ) that she might have put herself in danger by manipulating the battery. I checked on-line pictures of Li2O and, and it looked like the stuff that we saw on the battery. Then I checked the corresponding MSDS and saw it recommends removing and washing contaminated clothes, and rinsing skin with water for at least 15 minutes. 
She did none of this, and now I worry she might have put herself in danger and possibly contaminated the food she later prepared as well as the chairs she sat on with the same clothes that she had used to clean the battery.

I know I am obsessing about this, but at the same time, I'd like to understand if we ran any real risks with this stupid idea of cleaning off whatever was on this battery. Also, (we're now on holiday) should we do anything to "clean" the chairs or other stuff. Sorry for joining the forum for an OCD question but well, I guess I am not the first .


Thanks

bye

csdav

[Borek]

Whatever it was, it was most likely some lithium compound (definitely not Li₂O, as it reacts violently with water). Lithium in general is quite safe (everything is toxic to some extent, it is always a matter of dose - and lithium compounds are relatively safe, requiring huge doses for toxic effects to show up). If there are clothes you can still wash - do that (although amount of the salt that can be transferred by touch is so low I would not care about things she later sit on).

I assume she washed hands before cooking, and that's perfectly enough to be on the safe side.

Don't worry too much in advance. No real risks in my humble opinion.

[csdav]

Thanks Borek,
Yep, she washed her hands before cooking. And as for the clothes, my OCD forced me to force her to wash them the day after, so that's fine. The  worry  was for the chair and sofa she sat on with those clothes, but from what you tell me there's no need to wash those, right?

Another thing, after rinsing the battery she discarded the water on a pile of cut grass and weed that we need to bring to a green-waste recycling center. Do you think we can still treat that pile as green waste or should we dispose of it differently because of this? Also, do we need to take any precaution when and after handling this pile of grass and weed because of whatever we discarded on it?

Thanks again!

csdav

Whatever it was, it was most likely some lithium compound (definitely not Li₂O, as it reacts violently with water). Lithium in general is quite safe (everything is toxic to some extent, it is always a matter of dose - and lithium compounds are relatively safe, requiring huge doses for toxic effects to show up). If there are clothes you can still wash - do that (although amount of the salt that can be transferred by touch is so low I would not care about things she later sit on).

I assume she washed hands before cooking, and that's perfectly enough to be on the safe side.

Don't worry too much in advance. No real risks in my humble opinion.

[Borek]

The  worry  was for the chair and sofa she sat on with those clothes, but from what you tell me there's no need to wash those, right?

Yes. Amounts of salt transferred are so minute is should be perfectly safe.

Another thing, after rinsing the battery she discarded the water on a pile of cut grass and weed that we need to bring to a green-waste recycling center. Do you think we can still treat that pile as green waste or should we dispose of it differently because of this? Also, do we need to take any precaution when and after handling this pile of grass and weed because of whatever we discarded on it?

No special precautions needed - that is, gloves will do. No idea about how to treat the pile. There is a risk it is contaminated with cobalt or nickel (depending on the battery type), and that's not something you would like to have in the compost.

[csdav]

Hi,
thanks again! Regarding the pile, do you recommend gloves because of pollutants? Which? Co, Ni, or also Li and others?
Also. I should probably have said earlier that this was no more than 1cm3 (probably much less) of whatever salt (since you said it was not an oxide) diluted in something like 1 or 2 l of water and then dumped on top of 0.5m3 of weed. So wouldn't concentrations be very low in this case too?
It's tough to find a balance between normal precautions and OCD

Also, as a related question, you mentioned this was probably a salt because Li2O would have had a violent reaction with water.
This is:

(1) Li2O + H2O -> 2LiOH,

right?
As far as I understood LiOH is a soluble powder right? So what makes this violent? Heat? The good thing is that this is making me brush up my undergrad/high-school chemistry . I remember learning that

(2) 2Na + 2H2O -> 2NaOH + H2

would be violent because of the release of H2, and I think this would be the same for

(3) 2Li + 2H2O -> 2LiOH + H2,

but I am not sure I understand why  (1) would be violent.

Thanks

PS: I should probably have posted this in high-school chemistry in the end

No special precautions needed - that is, gloves will do. No idea about how to treat the pile. There is a risk it is contaminated with cobalt or nickel (depending on the battery type), and that's not something you would like to have in the compost.

[Borek]

thanks again! Regarding the pile, do you recommend gloves because of pollutants? Which? Co, Ni, or also Li and others?

Whatever leaked from the battery could be acidic or alkaline, in both cases it would mean it is corrosive. Unlikely to be seriously dangerous, but it is always better to be on the safe side.

Also. I should probably have said earlier that this was no more than 1cm3 (probably much less) of whatever salt (since you said it was not an oxide) diluted in something like 1 or 2 l of water and then dumped on top of 0.5m3 of weed. So wouldn't concentrations be very low in this case too?

Definitely not much. Still, I wouldn't deliberately throw off an AAA Ni/Cd battery into compost.

Also, as a related question, you mentioned this was probably a salt because Li2O would have had a violent reaction with water.
This is:

(1) Li2O + H2O -> 2LiOH,

right?
As far as I understood LiOH is a soluble powder right? So what makes this violent? Heat?

Yes, this is a fast and strongly exothermic reaction - mixture heats up and it can start to boil and splash.

[csdav]

Hi Borek,
sorry if I resurrect this, but I am back from vacation and need to dispose of that pile of green waste where we dumped the water with which we cleaned the battery spill.

As I said, this is a big pile of weed that will fill several 100l bags. Uncompressed it's at least 2m3, once compressed a bit it will probably fit into 6-10 80l bags.
The part of the pile where we dumped the water is like 1m across or less.

If I did not have this battery issue, I would have disposed of all of this as "green waste" at the local recycling center. But now I am wondering if I should take some of it and dispose of it separately, either as normal trash or I don't know how. And if I do, how much of it should I dispose separately...

What would you do at my place? I see it's my OCD at work, but I am having a hard time telling my self up to what point I am simply being a good citizen and staying safe.

Thanks

thanks again! Regarding the pile, do you recommend gloves because of pollutants? Which? Co, Ni, or also Li and others?

Whatever leaked from the battery could be acidic or alkaline, in both cases it would mean it is corrosive. Unlikely to be seriously dangerous, but it is always better to be on the safe side.

Also. I should probably have said earlier that this was no more than 1cm3 (probably much less) of whatever salt (since you said it was not an oxide) diluted in something like 1 or 2 l of water and then dumped on top of 0.5m3 of weed. So wouldn't concentrations be very low in this case too?

Definitely not much. Still, I wouldn't deliberately throw off an AAA Ni/Cd battery into compost.

Also, as a related question, you mentioned this was probably a salt because Li2O would have had a violent reaction with water.
This is:

(1) Li2O + H2O -> 2LiOH,

right?
As far as I understood LiOH is a soluble powder right? So what makes this violent? Heat?

Yes, this is a fast and strongly exothermic reaction - mixture heats up and it can start to boil and splash.

[Borek]

Honestly - I am not sure. Judging from the amounts you have mentioned, and from the description you have posted so far, it should be perfectly safe to dispose the pile as if nothing happened. But there is always a minute chance that something will go wrong.

[csdav]

Honestly - I am not sure. Judging from the amounts you have mentioned, and from the description you have posted so far, it should be perfectly safe to dispose the pile as if nothing happened. But there is always a minute chance that something will go wrong.

Thanks,
The pile is still in my yard as I haven't had the time to dispose of it.
am I correct if I assume that rain (which is abundant over here) has probably diluted most of whatever contaminant there was?