December 26, 2024, 07:05:49 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Acetate boiling point {radioactive spill procedure}  (Read 6433 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline isaac

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-2
Acetate boiling point {radioactive spill procedure}
« on: May 11, 2016, 02:20:06 PM »
Does Acetate evaporates in room temperature (25 °C)  ? I understand that its boiling point is 118 °C, the question is specifically about
[1-14C] Acetate (5 x 106 dpm/ml) 1.0 mM, if this material is spilled on the lab floor or desk is it going to disappear into the air at some point
 or is it going to contaminate the lab with radioactive particles for good?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 06:49:05 AM by Arkcon »

Offline Burner

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 198
  • Mole Snacks: +15/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Chem-is-try
Re: Acetate boiling point
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2016, 10:18:29 PM »
Does Acetate evaporates in room temperature (25 °C)  ? I understand that its boiling point is 118 °C, the question is specifically about
[1-14C] Acetate (5 x 106 dpm/ml) 1.0 mM, if this material is spilled on the lab floor or desk is it going to disappear into the air at some point
 or is it going to contaminate the lab with radioactive particles for good?

First of all, acetate is not radioactive.

Secondly, please specify if you are talking about organic acetates(e.g. ethyl acetate) or ionic acetate(e.g. sodium acetate).

Thirdly, do not try to wait for the spilt chemicals to evaporate by itself - clean up it. Google 'cleaning up chemical spills laboratory' for more information.
Year 1 science student in HKUST and a Chemistry geek.
If I make any mistakes in the forum, please don't hesitate to correct me as I want to learn.

Offline Dan

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4716
  • Mole Snacks: +469/-72
  • Gender: Male
  • Organic Chemist
    • My research
Re: Acetate boiling point
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 01:43:58 AM »
First of all, acetate is not radioactive.

I think "[1-14C] Acetate (5 x 106 dpm/ml) 1.0 mM" is some sort of 14C-labelled acetate solution, but it's not clear which acetate as you say.

Quote
Thirdly, do not try to wait for the spilt chemicals to evaporate by itself - clean up it.

I couldn't agree more.
My research: Google Scholar and Researchgate

Offline isaac

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-2
Re: Acetate boiling point
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 03:44:33 AM »
Correct, it's a c14 labeled acetate used in an experiment in students lab. During the experiment some students spilled that stuff on their robes, the floor or the desk while using the pipette and later i was told not to worry cause it gets "dry" . So hence my question if it's really a safe method to get rid of those unseen traces of this material ?
I'm not responsible on those safety aspects , I'm just a curious student...

The actual compound is :

***[1-14C] Acetate (5 x 106 dpm/ml) 1.0 mM *** ,

Potassium phosphate buffer pH 7.2 50.0   mM ,
, NaHCO3 25.0mM
, ATP   5.0 mM
, Glutathione   5.0mM
, Coenzyme A   0.1mM
, NADP   mM 1.0   
,MgCl2   5.0 mM
,MnCl2   0.5 mM

Offline Dan

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4716
  • Mole Snacks: +469/-72
  • Gender: Male
  • Organic Chemist
    • My research
Re: Acetate boiling point
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 05:52:16 AM »
It contains sodium/potassium acetate then. Do you think that will evaporate?
My research: Google Scholar and Researchgate

Offline Arkcon

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7367
  • Mole Snacks: +533/-147
Re: Acetate boiling point
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2016, 06:39:24 AM »
Correct, it's a c14 labeled acetate used in an experiment in students lab. During the experiment some students spilled that stuff on their robes, the floor or the desk while using the pipette and later i was told not to worry cause it gets "dry" . So hence my question if it's really a safe method to get rid of those unseen traces of this material ?

OK, let me reiterate what others have said, more specifically.

No.  This is not correct lab procedure.  You should have been trained before hand on the correct procedure, reviewed at the incident time, and followed it at that point.

The first time I worked with radio-labeled compounds I likewise spilled a small amount of tritium-labeled lipid.  A tiny amount, of a weakly labeled, short-half life, dilute solution.  So the exposure risk was the √ the √ the √ trivial.

However, there is a cleaning procedure for radio-labeled spills, and this was a good time to practice, and execute it.  There's no point in training people to become sloppy, because they'll only get worse.

The spill should have been roped off and diked, no not with hazmat cordons, and giant absorbent ropes -- just say, "Spill here, everyone else stay away" and some paper towels thrown around to keep the spill from spreading.  It should have been absorbed with paper towels, and all items that have absorbed radioactive solution should be added to the radioactive waste.  And eventually, the area should be subjected to a wipe test -- a moistened kimwipe is wiped on spots in the lab, added to scintillation solution, counted in a scintillation counter, and compared with background, all as a general test of laboratory hygiene compliance.

This sort of work can get expensive, rapidly.  But science is expensive, when executed with personal and environmental safety in mind.  People shouldn't be "playing" in the lab.  One person's spill should have been a big deal, but everyone's spill everywhere ... that's just sloppy.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27887
  • Mole Snacks: +1816/-412
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re: Acetate boiling point
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2016, 09:31:43 AM »
It contains sodium/potassium acetate then. Do you think that will evaporate?

No, but I bet acetate will get displaced by CO2, leaving non-C-14 carbonates.

Which is not an argument to ignore a correct cleaning procedure, but chemically acetate won't stay there.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Offline isaac

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-2
Re: Acetate boiling point {radioactive spill procedure}
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2016, 03:40:21 PM »
It contains sodium/potassium acetate then. Do you think that will evaporate?
I don't know, that's exactly why I'm asking...


I think the question was misunderstood, I never said that there were no safety procedure at all, the question was about TRACES that might have left on the floor or the equipment etc after you wipe it, obviously nobody leaves visible amount of such material anywhere.
Hence my question, what happens to those traces of the material? do they get evaporate? do the molecules break down after couple of days/weeks ?

Offline Arkcon

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7367
  • Mole Snacks: +533/-147
Re: Acetate boiling point {radioactive spill procedure}
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2016, 08:50:30 PM »
Well,everything wears away with time, if its a stain on the floor.  That's a given.

Acetate is a little bit volatile, You can smell some vinegar, over a mass of solid.  Still, it doesn't just disappear, in bulk, except over a long time.

Carbon-14 does have a half-life, but I doubt you want to wait for it. ;)
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Sponsored Links