[everydaygame]

Hi
   I have just graduated with a 2:1 in chemistry and was considering continuing in academia. I was thinking of doing and masters, possibly Mres or applying for some phd positions. Can anyone who has done either give some feedback as to what they are actually like, i hear phd students end up working long hours with little imput where as an mres allows more choice and set hours but with no pay check to put it simply. Given the choice which would you apply for?
   
      Matt
 

[macman104]

Hi
   I have just graduated with a 2:1 in chemistry and was considering continuing in academia. I was thinking of doing and masters, possibly Mres or applying for some phd positions. Can anyone who has done either give some feedback as to what they are actually like, i hear phd students end up working long hours with little imput where as an mres allows more choice and set hours but with no pay check to put it simply. Given the choice which would you apply for?
   
      Matt
 

Is 2:1, a 2.1gpa?  Or what exactly is a 2:1 in chemistry>?

[everydaygame]

Hah sorry im in England with the system being that you graduate with a 1st, 2:1, 2:2 or 3rd as an overall class for your degree. A 2:1 is considered the norm and good enough for research. I assumed this was similar to other countries, is it or am i just not explaining myself well? 

[agrobert]

Hah sorry im in England with the system being that you graduate with a 1st, 2:1, 2:2 or 3rd as an overall class for your degree. A 2:1 is considered the norm and good enough for research. I assumed this was similar to other countries, is it or am i just not explaining myself well? 

In the US this system is unfamiliar.  Please clarify.  On my opinion getting your PhD is far more valueable.  You need to find a school with interesting research and good professors.  The project is not exactly your choice but you should be able to find topics/areas that you are interested in.

[everydaygame]

A 1st awarded for an average module score of above 70%, a 2.1 60% a 2.2 50% and a 3rd 40% where all modules lab, exams and course work are all marked out of 100. The Mres (masters of research) courses in the uk allow you carry out a lab project of your design over 12 months i guess i was really asking how favorable this would look compared to a phd in employment terms the advantage being you get to choose the direction more.

[Mitch]

You could always enter a PhD program, but leave with your masters in a year maybe 2.

[Dan]

What kind of lab experience do you have? If you haven't done any long undergrad projects then I'd go for a masters first. Make sure it's a research masters. I think the experience is very valuable and will make your life easier.

For the benefit of anyone not familiar with the English system, PhDs are short, money usually runs out after 3 years, so the more comfortable you are in the lab to start with the better.
As far as pay goes, it is possible to get some funding for master's courses. It's usually not a huge amount, but softens the blow anyway.
For PhDs, the current EPSRC rate (£12600 pa, fees paid, no tax) is enough to keep you ticking over comfortably, and you get slightly more if you're in London. If you get an industrial sponsorship it could be more... I've heard of £18K sponsorships for PhDs, which is nuts.

A master's project will give you an accurate taste of what a PhD is like in that group, and will give you the general idea of what PhDs are lke on the whole. What life is like depends on the group and the supervisor. The 4th year of my undergrad was spent in lab doing a 9 month project (it was a masters degree overall) during which I decided to stay in the same group for a PhD because I enjoyed it so much.

In my case, I wouldn't say there's a massive difference in working hours and freedom between the two positions. I don't really work longer hours in the lab, but there is more reading to be done and I do a bit of teaching on the side so it's a busier life.

It's hard to give you firm advice because the working environment in different groups can vary dramatically. If you don't have much lab experience I'd do a masters first and make sure you actually like full time lab work. This will also give you another qualification - with a 2:1 and a masters I expect you'll comfortably get into most places if you decide to go for a PhD.

The bottom line is this: before you apply for a PhD you must meet the supervisor and have a chat with their group to get a feel for what you're getting into.

i guess i was really asking how favorable this would look compared to a phd in employment terms the advantage being you get to choose the direction more.

If you're set on doing one or the other to boost employment prospects, the PhD is definately the higher qualification. The PhD "looks better" but it does mean any company who hires you will have to pay you more, which, on the flipside, can make it harder to find a job (or so I've heard from friends in industry) because positions are more competitive.