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Topic: Creating Gold through Alpha Decay  (Read 28884 times)

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MadScientistMoose

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Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« on: June 06, 2005, 05:38:12 AM »
 Ok so i am up at 4 o clock and remembering a lesson i learned in chemistry in my sophmore year of highschool. When an element undergoes Alpha decay, it reacts with 4/2 He to create a new element. Therefor it is possible to create Au through such a reaction. The reaction i have worked out starts with 208/83 Bi and creates 204/81 Tl through alpha decay. From there, the Tl creats 200/97 Au through alpha decay. My questions are as follows:
     1) Will this really work?
     2) How do i take a sample of Bismuth and submit it to alpha decay when all i have is a solid sample? I know a cyclotron will be needed, but how to i put the bismuth and the helium in the cyclotron to collide in the fashion i want them to?
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Offline DrCMS

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2005, 07:50:54 AM »
Short answer No

Long answer
Alpha decay is the loss of 2 protons and 2 neutrons not their absorption.

208Bi decays by electron caputre to give 208Pb.  

If you hit it with neutron you'll make 209Bi and 210Bi and 211Bi which can decay by LOSS of an alpha particle to Tl .  

The Thallium formed depending on atomic number is either stable or decays by beta emmision to give Lead.

Most of the things that might decay to give gold are much more expensive than gold.

You can turn lead into gold using a B&W TV and a freezer but it takes years just to get a few atom thick film of gold on the lead surface.

Alchemy doesn't work.
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Grumples

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2005, 10:46:03 AM »
THis is completely irrelevant, but how can you turn lead into gold using a TV and a freezer? Sounds interesting...  :)
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Offline P-man

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2005, 10:47:22 AM »
I must agree with DrCMS. Alchemy led to chemistry, but it just is impossible. :'(
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Garneck

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2005, 11:18:43 AM »
Quote from: Grumples on June 06, 2005, 10:46:03 AM
THis is completely irrelevant, but how can you turn lead into gold using a TV and a freezer? Sounds interesting...  :)

This is possible. Send me you credit card numer and a pin - and I will tell you   ;D  ;)
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MadScientistMoose

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2005, 06:08:20 PM »
Quote from: DrCMS on June 06, 2005, 07:50:54 AM

Long answer
Alpha decay is the loss of 2 protons and 2 neutrons not their absorption.


Isnt that the formula i had? 204/81 Bi -> 4/2 He + 200/79 Au?

Besides, i only picked gold because it is a fun element lol. Is there any expiriement i can do with a cyclotron to create a new element?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2005, 06:12:02 PM by MadScientistMoose »
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Garneck

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2005, 03:23:04 AM »
Millions. Although 99,9999999% won't make anything happen.
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Offline Mitch

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2005, 06:36:55 AM »
Do you have a cylotron lying around doing nothing?
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Offline Elgon

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2005, 11:37:30 AM »
Not to mention the fact that none of the Bi or Tl isotopes you listed actually undergoes alpha decay.  :) They are all beta- or beta+ emitter.
Even if you happen to have a cyclotron lying around and use it to make radioactive isotopes, they still need to have the right decay mode.

And if you have a cyclotron, who is going to pay your electicity bill?  ;)
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Offline Donaldson Tan

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2005, 12:51:39 PM »
Quote from: Elgon on June 07, 2005, 11:37:30 AM
And if you have a cyclotron, who is going to pay your electicity bill?  ;)

you will have to use all the gold you synthesised to pay the electricity bill, and it's probably not enough still

 ;)
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Offline P-man

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2005, 04:56:15 PM »
Guess what?
You can extract mono-atomic gold from Dead Sea salt. I know a guy who does that for a living. Apparentely it can cure anything.

Pierre
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Offline Grejak

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2005, 05:33:14 PM »
Quote from: P-man on June 15, 2005, 04:56:15 PM
Guess what?
You can extract mono-atomic gold from Dead Sea salt. I know a guy who does that for a living. Apparentely it can cure anything.

'Mono-atomic' implies that you extract one atom at a time.  The correct term is mono-isotopic, meaning that he extracts one isotope of gold at a time.  This is not a remarkable feat considering that gold only has one stable, naturally occurring isotope.

Now on to the actual claim:  Considering the concentration of gold in sea water ranges from 5-50 parts per trillion, and assuming the highest concentration, one would need to evaporate off over 2000 tons of sea water in order to extract one gram of gold.  Also, any gold extracted from the Dead Sea will have the exact same properties as gold extracted from any other substance.  The only cure it offers is that gained through the placebo effect.

You cannot make a living off of extracting gold from sea water.  However, you can make a living off conning gullible people out of their money.  :animatedwink:
« Last Edit: June 15, 2005, 06:10:04 PM by Grejak »
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Offline constant thinker

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Re:Creating Gold through Alpha Decay
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2005, 06:28:00 PM »
That's pretty funny.
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