November 24, 2024, 10:50:48 PM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Topic: nitrogen  (Read 24333 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chemicalLindsay

  • Guest
nitrogen
« on: June 07, 2004, 04:36:14 AM »
Does anyone know any easy ways to produce pure nitrogen?
Logged

Offline AWK

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7976
  • Mole Snacks: +555/-93
  • Gender: Male
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2004, 05:03:23 AM »
On laboratory scale pure N2 can be obtained from decomposition of NH4NO2
NH4NO2 = N2 + 2H2O
Ammonium nitrite can be obtained in situ from sodium nitrite (nitrate(III)) and any ammonium salt.
Logged
AWK

Offline hmx9123

  • Retired Staff
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 897
  • Mole Snacks: +59/-18
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2004, 06:01:30 AM »
Commercial production of nitrogen is generally through liquification of atmospheric nitrogen.

I know the thermal decomp of ammonium nitrate produces other nitrogen oxides and can be explosive.  I would take a guess that the thermal decomp of ammonium nitrite might be dangerous as well, although haven't read anything about it.
Logged

Offline Donaldson Tan

  • Editor, New Asia Republic
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3177
  • Mole Snacks: +261/-13
  • Gender: Male
    • New Asia Republic
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2004, 06:12:25 AM »
How about decomposition of azo compounds?
Logged
"Say you're in a [chemical] plant and there's a snake on the floor. What are you going to do? Call a consultant? Get a meeting together to talk about which color is the snake? Employees should do one thing: walk over there and you step on the friggin� snake." - Jean-Pierre Garnier, CEO of Glaxosmithkline, June 2006

Offline hmx9123

  • Retired Staff
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 897
  • Mole Snacks: +59/-18
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2004, 06:16:56 AM »
Well, we could go from the questionably safe decomposition of ammonium nitrite to the handling of explosive azo and diazo compounds that will probably not be found outside of a lab.  Although there are stable azo and diazo comps, I think that ChemicalLindsay is looking for something that anyone could get a hold of.

Another thought might be to get some nitrogen from a pressurized cylinder.  You might be able to at least get argon from a TIG welding supplier, if all you're looking for is inert gas.  What do you intend to use it for?
Logged

Offline AWK

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7976
  • Mole Snacks: +555/-93
  • Gender: Male
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2004, 09:27:38 AM »
Decomposition of ammonium nitrite is absolutely safe concerning of possibility of explosion.
It is use for decomposition of nitrites during qualitative analysis of nitrite/nitrate mixture.
Urea, as well as amidosulfonic acid (NH2SO3H) can also be use for the decomposition of nitrite.
Logged
AWK

Offline jdurg

  • Banninator
  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1366
  • Mole Snacks: +106/-23
  • Gender: Male
  • I am NOT a freak.
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2004, 12:35:54 PM »
Quote from: AWK on June 07, 2004, 09:27:38 AM
Decomposition of ammonium nitrite is absolutely safe concerning of possibility of explosion.
It is use for decomposition of nitrites during qualitative analysis of nitrite/nitrate mixture.
Urea, as well as amidosulfonic acid (NH2SO3H) can also be use for the decomposition of nitrite.

I concur.  I don't believe that Ammonium Nitrite is considered a high explosive like Ammonium Nitrate is.  (Though I may be wrong).  Also, it takes quite a bit of energy to explosively detonate NH4NO3.  It usually takes the detonation of another high explosive to get it going.  (The addition of another substance to the mixture of ammonium nitrate makes it more sensitive, but you still need a blasting cap to get it going).
Logged
"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists

chemicalLindsay

  • Guest
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2004, 03:23:23 AM »
how long does it take ammonium nitrate to decompose?Where can it be obtained?
and I Need the nitrogen gas for my srp (student research project) because I am investigating what causes iron to rust (even though I already know what does cause it to do so).I will use the nitrogen gas to test to see what gases in the air cause iron to rust.
Logged

Offline AWK

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7976
  • Mole Snacks: +555/-93
  • Gender: Male
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2004, 03:46:19 AM »
how long does it take ammonium nitrate to decompose?Where can it be obtained?
It decompose at room temperature spontaneously after mixing sodium nitrite (cheap commercial reagent - technical grade may be used) and any ammonium salt.
I will use the nitrogen gas to test to see what gases in the air cause iron to rust.
Remove water vapor from gases you tests.
Logged
AWK

Offline hmx9123

  • Retired Staff
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 897
  • Mole Snacks: +59/-18
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2004, 04:01:42 AM »
Be careful with your nomenclature!  Ammonium nitrite and ammonium nitrate are two different beasts!  

Which are you talking about, AWK?  Nitrate or nitrite? He asks about the nitrate, and you seem to be speaking of the nitrite...

Although ammonium nitrite is not explosive, ammonium nitrate can be.  Jdurg is right, it does take some energy to get it going, but it can explosively decompose upon strong heating, so you need to be careful.  You do not necesarily need a cap to get it going either; just look at the 1940's explosion in Texas to find that out.  Of course, that was an extreme case, but you don't need a cap to cause detonation--just to get the maximum output.
Logged

Offline AWK

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7976
  • Mole Snacks: +555/-93
  • Gender: Male
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2004, 06:56:27 AM »
From the second message on this subject I am talking about ammonium nitrite, or ammonium
nitrate(III) or NH4NO2

Synthesis of nitrogen from ammonium nitrate(V) is quite difficult. It decompose to form
N2O when temerature is maintained at 185-200 C or to mixture of N2 NO i NO2 with explosion.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 07:27:42 AM by AWK »
Logged
AWK

Offline billnotgatez

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4431
  • Mole Snacks: +224/-62
  • Gender: Male
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2004, 08:16:03 PM »
There are several companies that sell small cylinders of nitrogen for a reasonable price and they verify purity. You will find this the easiest way to get nitrogen. By the way they will sell you helium, argon and oxygen as well. They usually rent the tank by the day and sell you the gas up front.
Logged

chemicalLindsay

  • Guest
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2004, 03:20:29 AM »
thanks
Do you know any good companies of hand that are in australia cause thats were I live and I don't want to import.
Logged

Offline Mitch

  • General Chemist
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
  • Mole Snacks: +376/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • "I bring you peace." -Mr. Burns
    • Chemistry Blog
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2004, 02:35:28 PM »
are you in school? What grade?
Logged
Most Common Suggestions I Make on the Forums.
1. Start by writing a balanced chemical equation.
2. Don't confuse thermodynamic stability with chemical reactivity.
3. Forum Supports LaTex

Offline billnotgatez

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4431
  • Mole Snacks: +224/-62
  • Gender: Male
Re:nitrogen
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2004, 08:39:56 PM »
People who do wielding may have tanks of helium, oxygen, argon and other gases. Ask someone who does that kind of wielding which company they buy from. That company is likely to deal in many gases including Nitrogen.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »
Sponsored Links