[carnation]

Hi everyone,
I have a question about the name about the parameters to check the quality of water. There are some parameters to determine the solids in water : Suspended Solids(SS), Dissolved Solids(DS), Total Solids(Ts). The methods to determine are suggested in Standard method for examine waste water and water. I found the term"Total suspended solids, and total dissolved solids" in some documents. And I check the methods to determine them, the results were that they're the same. I wondered that the Total suspended Solids and the Suspended Solids whether the same or not. If they're the same, why people need 2 terms " Total suspended solids and suspended solids".
Could any of you can help me to figure out that problem? Thanks alot

[Mr Peanut]

All of these parameters are method defined quantities (watch drying temps, and filter specifications)

TSS: Total suspended solids are retained on a filter and weighed. AKA filterable solids.

TDS: Total dissolved solids are solids dissolved in the solution that passes through the filter. They remain after drying an aliquot of the filtered solution.

TS: Total solids is the weight of residue remaining after drying an unfiltered aliquot of sample.

SS: settleable (sic) solids is the volume of solids that will settle in a conical apparatus in fixed period of time.

Again all are method defined parameters. That is, these are the values you get when you apply the technique exactly as specified.

[Mr Peanut]

Well, actually, beware on the AKA filterable solids. Standard Methods actually call it "filtrable" solids and it represents the stuff passing through the filter.'

Best to stick with TSS, TDS, TS and SS.

[carnation]

All of these parameters are method defined quantities (watch drying temps, and filter specifications)

TSS: Total suspended solids are retained on a filter and weighed. AKA filterable solids.

TDS: Total dissolved solids are solids dissolved in the solution that passes through the filter. They remain after drying an aliquot of the filtered solution.

TS: Total solids is the weight of residue remaining after drying an unfiltered aliquot of sample.
It's clear about the difference between Settable Solids and Total suspended solids. There's no consuse about that. The thing is that the difference between "Total Suspended Solids" and "Suspended Solids". Because some documents use the term "Total Suspended Solids" and some use "Suspended Solids. But the methods to use seem to be the same. This happen to many documents including WHO, FAO documents.
Is there any differnce ?

SS: settleable (sic) solids is the volume of solids that will settle in a conical apparatus in fixed period of time.

Again all are method defined parameters. That is, these are the values you get when you apply the technique exactly as specified.

[carnation]

The thing is that is there any difference betweet "Total Suspended Solids" and " Suspended Solids" in water

[Mr Peanut]

No, they are the same. But beware, SS is the abbreviation for “settleable” solids.

The EPA regulates test procedures for the analysis of parameters for Clean Water Act compliance in 40 CFR 136. You can find this reference at:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/pdf/40cfr136.3.pdf

There is a table starting on page 16.

Look at items 53 – 57. (Note that there is an error in the table. The units for settleable solids should be ml/l)

[carnation]

So, infact there is no difference between Total suspended Solids and Suspended Solids.
It's very kind of you to answer my questions.
Thanks alot

[Mr Peanut]

PS: The official parameter name is: “Residue—nonfilterable” or Total Suspended Solids (TSS). No one that I am aware of uses the term suspended solids in any formal communication. This is to avoid the confusion with still another parameter: Total Volatile Suspended Solids.

Use Total Suspended Solids (TSS).

[carnation]

Thanks for your kind reply. from your reply, I knew that the formal term is " Total suspended solids". I know that there are alot of terms involved the Solids. Do you know that when they use"total" before bla bla Solids, when thay are not using that term. And the reason why.
For ex : Total Suspended Solids, Total Solids, Total Dissolved Solid, Total Volatile Solids and Settable Solids (without Total )

[Mr Peanut]

It is the analytical chemist’s objective to be unambiguous to a fault. This is also the regulators preference. If you give units for a result of mg/l, Total Suspended Solids then no one can say “I thought you meant volatile suspended solids” or “diatomaceous suspended solids.”

This precision in language goes beyond solids. For example, Cyanide in water has several flavors including: Total, Dissolved, Suspended, Free, Amenable to Chlorination, Weak Acid Dissociable, and Physiologically Available.

You will also see certain conventions that analytical chemists use to make results more fool-proof. For example, you never see .5 mg/l. it is always 0.5 mg/l. That way the tiny period doesn’t get lost.

If you are looking at a lab report that is ambiguous is some way you are right to be skeptical. Most laboratories are pretty careful about using the exact parameter name such as Total Suspended Solids. The regulatory community (at least in the United States) will usually reject reports when the parameter naming and results format is not in exact conformance with permit language. And.. permit writers – being related to lawyers – are pretty pedantic about precision in language.

[carnation]

Thank for your reply
Can we have the term : Total Settable Solid (because we have Total Volatile solid)

[ijan]

TSS= total suspended solids, simple means Turbidity of water due to undissolved particles.
you can measure simply by measuring wattmann filter paper and then a known amount of water pass through and then dry it and take weight before and after this is your TSS measurement.

TDS= Total dissolved solids. the salts or particles which are dissolved in water and u can seperate and measure from water by simple complexometric titration.

if u need complete procedure for your experiments then it is also available.

[Mr Peanut]

Well, actually turbidity is still another parameter with a method derived definition. Turbidity is determined by a light scattering technique. As for Carnation’s question, yes we “could”. In fact, we don’t use that terminology. We use

Residue—settleable (yes that's right, it is spelled wrong)

These names are a matter of law, not chemistry.

You can find a list of “Official” names in a government regulation entitled:

40 CFR 136: Guidelines establishing test procedures for the analysis of pollutants

[carnation]

To ijan : Thanks for your reply but We can not consider turbidity as Total suspended solids. Suspended Solids can affect turbidity but it is not can be consider in a simple way as turbidity.
To Mr Peanut : I totally agree with you that it is the matter of law - when we discuss about the terms. But sometimes I don't know why in some technical documents issued by famous organizations such as FAO, WHO, they used the informal terms (not official).If it is the matter of law, in my opinion, people have to follow in a same way regulated by the law.

[Mr Peanut]

Well, presumably because they are neither regulators nor the regulated.

But the fact is even the academic community is in tune with the need for strict conformance in parameter naming. In another life and for a very short period of time I worked for an EPA contract consultant. Among other things, we peer reviewed studies related to certain endangerment assessments. The attitude was, if the parameters are not properly designated, reject the study... completely. Again, a good analytical chemist is precise in language - to a fault.