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Topic: I need help with this mechanism?  (Read 5558 times)

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Offline MAFII

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I need help with this mechanism?
« on: October 24, 2007, 10:45:19 AM »
I am not a student looking for an answer.  I am actually investigating a reaction and while looking at old papers, I came across this reaction:

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/joceah/1953/18/i11/pdf/jo50017a013.pdf

sorry, I made a chemdraw picture, but I don't know how to add it onto this server?  However, the first reaction's mechanism is not 100% clear to me, can anybody help.

Thank you,

-M.



Offline Yarr

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Re: I need help with this mechanism?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 05:14:58 PM »
In order to view your link one must have an account on that site. Since I don't have, could you describe the reaction?

Offline agrobert

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Re: I need help with this mechanism?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 09:25:11 PM »
This link should be freely available

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/joceah/1953/18/i11/f-pdf/f_jo50017a013.pdf?sessid=6006l3

I'm still working out the mechanism, I don't understand the ketone addition because conditions do not appear favorable
In the realm of scientific observation, luck is only granted to those who are prepared. -Louis Pasteur

Offline Rico

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Re: I need help with this mechanism?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2007, 09:00:55 AM »
I've attached a jpeg-file with a reasonable mechanism for the reaction in the link posted by agrobert.
The mechanism consists of an amide-formation, a conjugate addition, an aldol-type reaction (nucleophilic attack on the ketone), elimination of hydroxide ion, cyclization and in the end a decarboxylation. Some of the steps may occur in a different order.

I hope this is what you are looking for.

Offline Fry

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Re: I need help with this mechanism?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2007, 12:15:47 PM »
Why wouldnt the carboxylic acid protonate the last OH to give the iminium ion? And continue from there with the phenol attacking the imine?

Offline Rico

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Re: I need help with this mechanism?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2007, 01:12:00 AM »
I see your point, i did not think of that. That is probably a more reasonable mechanism.

Offline Fry

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Re: I need help with this mechanism?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2007, 02:45:22 AM »
Ah, okay I just thought there was something I was missing  ;D

Offline MAFII

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Re: I need help with this mechanism?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2007, 11:57:52 AM »
I've attached a jpeg-file with a reasonable mechanism for the reaction in the link posted by agrobert.
The mechanism consists of an amide-formation, a conjugate addition, an aldol-type reaction (nucleophilic attack on the ketone), elimination of hydroxide ion, cyclization and in the end a decarboxylation. Some of the steps may occur in a different order.

I hope this is what you are looking for.


Thanks a lot, that looks very reasonable.  I wouldn't have guessed that there would be that great of a driving force for the conjugate addition.

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