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Topic: Acidity of COOH vs NH3R+  (Read 12094 times)

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Offline Carnifex

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Acidity of COOH vs NH3R+
« on: August 07, 2008, 07:56:57 PM »
Just a quick question; I always thought carboxylic acids were more acidic than the ammonium cation group, but in my solution manual, it says the hydrogens on the +NH3R are more acidic than the hydrogen on the COOH. In the text it even says the pKa of COOH is greater than the ammonium ion, but yet still says the opposite in the solution manual. Is this just a mistake?

Offline macman104

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Re: Acidity of COOH vs NH3R+
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2008, 08:16:40 PM »
You can't just say NH3R is more acidic than COOH, it depends on what is attached to those groups.  But for example, benzoic acid (Ph-COOH, 4.2pKa) is only slightly more acidic than an anilinium cation (Ph-NH3+, 4.6pKa)

Offline Yggdrasil

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Re: Acidity of COOH vs NH3R+
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2008, 08:46:14 PM »
Aniline is a very representative example because the basicity of the amine is greatly reduced by conjugation with the benzene ring.  A more generalizable comparision is acetic acid (CH3CH2COOH pKa = 4.76) versus the ethylammonium cation (CH3CH2NH3+, pKa = 10.7).

Offline Carnifex

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Re: Acidity of COOH vs NH3R+
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2008, 08:54:34 PM »
Ah I apologize. I forgot to mention that these two groups are together in the same compound. The exact compound is H3N+CH2COOH. The question was "which hydrogen is more acidic.

Offline azmanam

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Re: Acidity of COOH vs NH3R+
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 09:24:28 PM »
The carboxylic acid of glycine is significantly more acidic (lower pka) than the ammonium ion.  pKa carboxylic acid: ~2.3.  pKa ammonium cation: ~9.6

http://courses.cm.utexas.edu/jrobertus/ch339k/overheads-1/table_3-1.jpg
http://dbs.umt.edu/courses/fall2006/bioc380/lectures/008/images/aa-pkas.jpg

But, carboxylic acids are not always more acidic than ammonium cations.  Like macman said, it depends on the substituents on both.
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