[Ferroziuns]

I'm reading reading this forum for 5 days and I have to tell you: it would take several weeks
to find same information on other forums. Even the forum's name - www.chemicalforums.com - sounds good .
Hope this place will keep its nice atmosphere, thanks for *delete me*

[Arkcon]

This is, hands down, the best such forum on the web.  A google search has led me to a couple others, but they are lame -- no discussions at all, for days at a time, there's nothing to browse.  If you're ever bored, look at the who's online result -- http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?action=who  and see what everyone, even non-members have come to see at that moment.  These users, who may be bot's working for search engines, are looking up discussions held here back in 2005, which are just as good as any being held now.

[ARGOS++]

Dear All;

(I know, that Mitch doesn’t like discussions as below, but why should we inspect the reality with the wrong colored glasses?)

Dear Arkcon inspired by your posting I will anyway start the discussion:
I’m analysing/monitoring the “Who’s Online” page you referring to over several months, some moths ago and last month too, but the result I found makes me all times to feel to be ashamed that “we” not offer a much better particular service to our members and guests!
(Yes, till yet I overcame quite easy several tries to stop the more frequently use of that page.)

During my analysis I’m most interested in:   How guests and members get the “relevant” information/threads of the Forums?

And the outcome is very “bad” and disillusioning:
The search service as offered from Google INSIDE the Forums is with a certain distance the lowest relevant search engine for both: Guests and Members. So it’s not any longer a surprise for me, that we have so often to answer the identical, or quasi identical questions again and again, - not only because questioners not frequently enough use “our” search service!
So it’s by far not enough, that we know, that we have already answered a particular question to tell them, that they should first search the Forums before asking the same again and again!

Even Google itself, from out side of the Forums knows in nearly every case several times more and more relevant threads (at begin of hit list), especially if you add to your search term the keyword “chemicalforums” (not: “chemical forums”)! 
On one hand it’s only good, that they all don’t know it?

No I don’t like to discredit the,  - or something of the Forums, but it’s something we should make more accurate for the future.
(Who doesn’t believe, may check my answer-postings/topics ratio!)

I still believe, that’s worth to really think about/act on.
Let’s make the Forums even better and user friendly then ever.
Dear Ferroziuns; Thank you very much for your Complement!

Kind regards!
                    ARGOS⁺⁺

[Borek]

Honestly, I did my best to understand what you mean, but I failed. I can only address two individual points.

Most people coming here are too lazy to search the forum. That's not the problem just here, that's the problem on every forum I know,

Adding "chemicalforums" to the Google query doesn't make sense. However, adding "site:chemicalforums.com" forces Google to search just our site.

[ARGOS++]

Dear Mr. Borek;

With both arguments you are right!

But for the first:
If they are not able to find relevant information on the “internal” search engine, it doesn’t makes any sense to guide them to do so! And think about, that from external they search and find (and more relevant)!
And if they are first frustrated, they will not try once more, even if you tell them.
(In a German forum I visit it is not as dramatic as here.)

To your second:
If you have tried “my hint”, then Google offers your referenced extention for free, for no additional typing, as I did it during an innumerable tryies.

But it’s already a good thing, that we start to talk about.
Good Luck!
                    ARGOS⁺⁺

[Mitch]

I'll bet money Ferroziuns is a robot. Probably probing our server and defenses.

Argos++: The internal site search has been added to the header menu. The google search is suppose to also search chemistry-blog.com and other chemical properties too.

[macman104]

I'll bet money Ferroziuns is a robot. Probably probing our server and defenses.

I was originally going to disagree and say that it was too well worded, but looking back, it looks like an easy message to apply to any forum.  I think you might be right.

[Arkcon]

Honestly, I did my best to understand what you mean, but I failed. I can only address two individual points.

Most people coming here are too lazy to search the forum. That's not the problem just here, that's the problem on every forum I know,

Adding "chemicalforums" to the Google query doesn't make sense. However, adding "site:chemicalforums.com" forces Google to search just our site.

True enough, but as I understand ARGOS⁺⁺:, if you use the Google applet in the upper right of the fourm pase, or go to Google's webpage, and limit the search to site:chemicalforums.com, the result is the same -- you don't get the very best answers on this site, not like you used to when I used the old skin's search function.  For example, I couldn't find, an old post of mine, that linked to the Java applet for the NIST web book.  Went nuts trying to find it.  Recently, someone has noticed that they're getting phase separation with their alcoholic solution of NaOH on silica chips.  Last year someone had a very similar problem: their alcohol solution of phenolphthalein was gelling in silica channels with NaOH, but I can't find that discussion.  Recently, someone was talking about aqua regia, which I used to use, and I even posted my picture, decked out in neoprene, but I'd be dammed if I tried find that thread now, except for reading all my posts.  Sad to say, I just don't care that much.

Now, given that with a human mind behind it, typing in "Arkcon" + "Aqua Regia" + "Gold" doesn't work, how good a job is Yahoo's slurpbot at indexing this forum well enough to be useful to anyone else?

*[EDIT]*

One of those bots, eh.  Hmmm.  You guys may be right, with a link within to see if other bots follow.  Tricky.

[Mitch]

account deleted

[ARGOS++]

Dear Mitch;

Argos++: The internal site search has been added to the header menu. The google search is suppose to also search chemistry-blog.com and other chemical properties too.

Sorry!, but that header search engine (HS) is almost worse then the internal google service (IGS):
Only one (of countless) simple example:
         Hits for “Beer’s Law”:    HS: 3;   IGS: 18;   “my internal search” (MIS): 85!
I think such is arguing for itself; not having talked about relevance jet.

Dear Arkcon;

I understand ARGOS⁺⁺:, if you use the Google applet in the upper right of the fourm pase, or go to Google's webpage, and limit the search to site:chemicalforums.com, the result is the same -   

It would be very nice, if I could agree with you, but all my experience tell me the opposite!
(You may also see the example above.)

For example, I couldn't find, an old post of mine, that linked to the Java applet for the NIST web book.  Went nuts trying to find it.  Recently, someone has noticed that they're getting phase separation with their alcoholic solution of NaOH on silica chips.  Last year someone had a very similar problem: their alcohol solution of phenolphthalein was gelling in silica channels with NaOH, but I can't find that discussion.  Recently, someone was talking about aqua regia, which I used to use, and I even posted my picture, decked out in neoprene, but I'd be dammed if I tried find that thread now, except for reading all my posts.  Sad to say, I just don't care that much.
 

It’s maybe not only the search engine, because I’m also missing several answers I have given for at least two threads. Finally I found out when I asked the questioner, that he must have deleted both threads by a "mistake". It’s really bad, but I don’t know how the system can allow such doing.

Kind regards!
                    ARGOS⁺⁺

[Borek]

Only one (of countless) simple example:
         Hits for “Beer’s Law”:    HS: 3;   IGS: 18;   “my internal search” (MIS): 85!

I can't reproduce your numbers. Can you post a link to the search? Something like

http://www.google.com/search?num=25&hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en&hs=e2k&q=Beer%27s+Law+chemicalforums&btnG=Search

[ARGOS++]

Dear Mr. Borek;

Thank you for your tries!

HS:    The direct link doesn’t contain the search term, that’s why I attached the small number of hits.
IGS:   http://www.google.com/cse?q=Beer%27s+Law&cx=partner-pub-4958982952381359%3A6dqjnycw8wa
MIS:   http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awww.chemicalforums.com++Beer%27s+Law&btnG=Search
(Remember that on MIS only ~85 “normal” links (of >~700) are direct accessible, that means without &filter=0 on the address line.)

For the MIS I have created a Favorite containing already the "chemicalforums.com" term.

Kind regards!
                    ARGOS⁺⁺

[enahs]

http://www.google.com/support/customsearch/bin/topic.py?topic=11502

[Mitch]

I know many of you guys might not remember how to format search queries to maximize effective results, because google has made us all lazy with such things. If you use the forum search (found in the header menu bar above) and type this as the query:
Beer* + Law

I get 78 hits, mostly all relevant.
Doing the same in the google internal search gives around 15.

Remember MySQL search has problems dealing with hyphenation and spaces (sigh). It's an other reason why I like the Google Search more, it tends to be more relevant anyways.

Failing learning how to make proper search queries, just search for things like this in the forum header menu search: Beer Law. Striping away non a-z and 0-9 characters. It'll figure out what you want, mostly.

[ARGOS++]

Dear enahs;

Thank you for the link I have not known.
I will take some time for study it.

Dear Mitch;

Thank you for all your effort!
Interesting to learn that the "Asterics" works quite different for HS, IGS, and external Google.
But hand to heart, what do you think, how many members really know such a behavior, and how many guests?

But generally searching for "beer's law" doesn't mean you like to search for "beer law", because then you are definitely not interested in: "honey beer", "dark beer", "strong beer", "Murphy's Law", "Kelly's law", "front lawn", etc. etc.
For the term: "beer lambert law" the situation on the HS is a little better (24), but worse for IGS (7), and for MIS we still find 68 normal hits of over 700.

Very interesting is, that guests seems to change their behavior as soon as they became a member, because my analysis found, the a majority of guests arrive, at least for the first time but not only, via an external search.

Good Luck!
                    ARGOS⁺⁺