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Topic: electrolytic cells  (Read 14081 times)

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Offline marglar

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electrolytic cells
« on: May 20, 2009, 05:01:53 PM »
I'm really wanting to play with electrolytic cells, especially for chlorates and perchlorates.

I'm not finding any good places to buy them.  I'm also not finding any good articles on how to make my own.


Can anyone help me out?  Its most appreciated!



Offline 408

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Offline marglar

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 06:21:19 PM »
Thank you!

Any good sources to buy them (not too expensive)?

What about making them from scratch?

I sure do appreciate the time and *delete me*

Offline 408

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 08:57:47 PM »
I have made them before using info in the previous links I gave you...This is the making from scratch help...

I have used both platinum and graphite anodes with success.  I also prefer a noble metal cathode, as it is safe towards corrosion once the cell is off.  Copper cathodes contaminate the cell soon after being turned off.

Some places to buy parts, none of which I used.  I just used Pt wire from ebay, and a flask with stopper.  Its really quite easy.
http://www.jumpinjackflashpyrosupplies.com/servlet/the-CHLORATE-fdsh-HHO-CELL-PARTS/Categories
http://www.northstarpyro.com/ANODES_CATHODES_CELLS-PRE_BUILT_POTASSIUM_CHLORATE_CELL_6.html

Why the hell is your post ended with *delete me*?

Offline marglar

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 09:34:37 PM »
Oh, I think that the system auto puts in "delete me" if you use a word like a-d-v-i-c-e or something similar so no posts seem like they are telling someone to do anything specific.  It seems kinda silly really.

Thanks for the links!

Offline marglar

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 09:36:13 PM »
so, just using platinum wire is cool for making an anode / cathode and then a flask with a stopper?

That sounds just perfect!

Offline 408

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2009, 09:50:25 PM »
Yes for a small cell.  For a larger cell you will need more current and correspondingly larger electrode surface area which will be difficult with wire. 

Offline marglar

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 10:29:41 PM »
Can the titanium be used for both chlorates and perchlorates?

Offline 408

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 10:37:09 PM »
As a cathode, yes.

Offline marglar

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 10:55:32 PM »
ok, the suspense is killing me.  What would you recommend for the anode?

Offline 408

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 12:01:23 AM »
Pt or Graphite.

If you read the links in my first post in this thread you would know these are the most common anode materials.

Offline marglar

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 12:25:56 AM »
Thanks!

I'm off to do my homework now!  (reading those posts you sent)

If you know of a good source for the platinum wire, I'd like to check them out.

Is there a best size to look for?  What if it is platinum with 10 or 20% iridium?  I see that on ebay.

You've been a fantastic help, I really appreciate it!



Offline billnotgatez

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 12:48:29 AM »
When we discussed electrolysis of water on other posts in this forum many suggested using carbon rods from old batteries. It was thought that although not as efficient as platinum the carbon rods worked wells enough for fun projects. I am wondering if this also applies to the electrolytic cells discussed here for both anode and cathode.


Offline 408

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 01:09:47 AM »
Sure they will work, but graphite does slowly disintegrate, not via any chemical process, just physical wear from the electrolysis.  Also, are they not rather short if from a battery?  Their length and diameter may be physically limiting when designing a cell.  Graphite gouging rods(no idea what they are for, other than used in welding and available at related shops) are nice long thick graphite shafts with a thin copper cladding that can be peeled off with minimal effort.  These can be treated with linseed oil to reduce disintegration.  I think I paid 20$ CDN for 50 foot long 1/4 inch rods, but this was a long time ago, and prices likely are up.

Ebay is your friend for Pt, and Ir is no problem.  Other sources exist, but ebay was cheap.

I've never ran a perchlorate('back in the day' when I did this I had HClO4, so no effort was made on electrolytic perchlorate production) cell, only chlorate.  But for perchlorate, Pt anode and Ti cathode seems common.  This electrode config will work for chlorate of course as well with run times controlling product.  It is worth noting that with graphite electrodes you will be unable to make perchlorate, but this can be good if you do not want to monitor your cell too much, and only want chlorate to form.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: electrolytic cells
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2009, 01:25:16 AM »
I like your idea of using welding rods.

Did I get it right
You can use carbon rods for anode and cathode chlorate cells, but not perchlorate cells.

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