[dana43449]

hi guys and girls!

this is kinda related to the green flame lighter thread.  but i need to know how to make iso alcohol burn blue.

i've tried adding salt to it. not much luck.

the key here, is that i need the mixture to not be caustic, or raise the temp too much.

any suggestions?

thanks all!

Dana

[nj_bartel]

If my memory is right, isopropanol burns blue?

[billnotgatez]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_test

From my recollection the blue flame is dim and can be yellow due to amount of oxygen available. I think they are looking for flame test. But breathing in any of the gasses produced is probably not good even if most demonstrations are not done under the hood

[dana43449]

@nj_bartel-  isopropanol is what i'm using, and it does burn blue, kinda.  the visible flame sometimes begins as a bluish color nearest the fuel source, and quickly turns to a yellow for the course of the rest of the flame.  i'm wanting to make as much of the flame blue as possible.

@bill- thanks for the link.  i read through it, and even checked out some of the options in the grid. selenium looked good at first, but the danger to the respiratory system makes it undesirable, plus i cant find any information on dermal reactions.

the copper looks like the best bet.  but i am by far not a chemistry major, so i have no idea what form of copper would work well.  would copper chloride, boric acid, or potasium chloride work in my alcohol? these, from what i glean, give a greenish blue or purple flame, but my info sources are talking about mixing these items in lamp oil, kerosene, methylated spirits, or other petroleum based fuels. and for obvious reasons, this isnt a good idea for my application.

even the alcohol isnt absolutely mandatory, as long as the primary fuel is something that burns at relatively low temp, isnt particularly poisonous, or reactive, and doesnt leave anything behind like the petroleum products.  cheap and easily available would also be great draws, too.  thats why i like the alcohol- it fits all of these needs/wants.  suggestions are welcome, though

thanks again!
Dana.

[408]

Go with copper chloride for blue, boric acid burns green and K burns purple.  A bit of dispersed PVC powder with the copper chloride may help the colour as well.

[billnotgatez]

I assume you noticed that many of the flame demonstrations use a Bunsen burner that is set up to have as white a flame as possible.
I guess that is to hedge bets and have as hot a flame as possible. The whiter the flame the better use of oxygen – white hot.

As a side note, there are logs you can buy that have chemicals impregnated in them that give off colors when burned in a fireplace.

[dana43449]

@408- the copper chloride seems to be one of the best bets so far, but where can i find it? and how would i go about mixing it with the alcohol?  the pvc powder i'd be a bit leary about since i'll be placing the fuel mix onto bare skin and then lighting it up. i really dont want to poison, or burn anyone.

@billnotgatez- i did notice the white flame, i figured it was used so that the source flame color wouldnt influence the color of the test items.  an those colored fireplace logs are cool!!!  makes me wanna run out and buy a fireplace just so i have a reason to use them! lol  thanks for reminding me about them- i'll look into them adn maybe it will shed some light, so to speak lol.

[408]

@408- the copper chloride seems to be one of the best bets so far, but where can i find it? and how would i go about mixing it with the alcohol?  the pvc powder i'd be a bit leary about since i'll be placing the fuel mix onto bare skin and then lighting it up. i really dont want to poison, or burn anyone.

The hell are you trying to do?  Alcohol with or without PVC will cause burns if you light it on skin.  Trying to get an honorable mention in the Darwin awards?

Can be made by dissolving copper metal in a mix of HCl and peroxide, then evaporating to dryness.

Also could probably get some of those blue fire logs, and soak in alcohol to get whatever they use.

[dana43449]

what about calcium chloride?  it seems to be meet the safety requirements, and is available at a decent price, and is reported to generate a blue flame- nice!  i know this stuff is water soluable, but is it alcohol soluable?  if not, how can i get the alcohol and CC to work together?

thanks!!!!
dana

[dana43449]

408 lol no, i'm not a darwin award nominee hehe  yes, i do intent to rub the alcohol onto bare skin, then set it on fire.  when done with care, and put out before it casues damage, can create an intense warm feeling.  it is an exercise in trust and vulnerability/responsibility.  great stuff, especially for marriage/relationship counseling :-)

what ratio of hcl to peroxide would i use for this?

hmm, soaking the firelogs- a most interesting idea- i'll look into that- thanks!!!

dana

[408]

Ratios not critical considering the workup (ambient atmosphere evap followed by mild heating) Just add some copper wire to some hardware store HCl (37%) and add some 30% hydroponics store peroxide.  If when it stops dissolving add more peroxide.  Not rocket science.

It is still stupid to light yourself on fire.

[nj_bartel]

videotape and post plz

[dana43449]

thanks 408- i'll give that a try!  and to each his/her own: -)

@nl_bartel- i do not have video equipment at the moment, but here are some links to youtube vids that should at least give you a glimpse, although they realy only scratch the surface (no pun intented).  besides, what i do is generally not considered child/work friendly   but here are some clean ones...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiXKFTTZKwc    fire flogging!

fire poi spinning...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKOd0b7y08c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcDkX1GJV6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sfih3u6p-Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18rGR7VUHLk

fire whip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM9rqK0Xj44&feature=PlayList&p=F9DA7751309DBC29&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JjprYD2Yhw

thats all i could find right off the top of my head, not exactly what I intend to do, but still some pretty cool vids.  but to truly appreciate it, one really needs to see it live- the camera just doesnt do it justice.  for more info contact me offline. dana434492003@yahoo.com