[Skysky0029]

Hi,

I recently heard of a dietary supplement/neuropsychotropic drug called Phenibut.  Also, supposedly it "enhances" the effects of alcohol.  Basically, it only really takes 2 drinks to get a drunk feeling.

However in researching it, I have noticed that one should ask a doctor before combining it with alcohol.

To those who know, are there any negative health effects with combining 1-2 grams of Phenibut with alcohol?  I only intend on doing it about once every other week (due to the fact the drug does have withdrawal symptoms).

Also, does anyone else know of any chemical/drug out there that can make you drunk without drinking more than two drinks (and is legal of course)?  Thanks for any information.

[nj_bartel]

Barbituates if you have a prescription, but that's an awful idea.

Honestly, I'd just drink more alcohol.

[Skysky0029]

No, I'm not looking to mess with anything prescription and alcohol.  Anyways, I would just ask a doctor about that if that is the case.  And I would probably only get precription drugs if I needed them for something else in which case I wouldn't drink.

Anyways, I'm doing this for health reasons.  Drinking more alcohol is not something I'm looking to do. 

So, my first question would be if Phenibut is safe to do with alcohol (first priority).  Second would be about alternatives (which would not include precription drugs or illegal ones).

[nj_bartel]

Your PCP probably won't have a clue.  They don't really delve into the world of psychopharm too much.  Find a psychiatrist or neurologist if you really want a decent answer~

[Agent-X]

The drug does not seem like a reliable way of inducing the feeling of alcohol intoxication.
You may want to research on how alcohol affects neurochemistry.
There is more than dopamine involved.

[JGK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut

To be honest, mucking about with alcohol & drugs is not something I would recommend to anyone unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing (especially drugs that work on the CNS).

[Skysky0029]

I fully agree.  I heard about this from a PhD candidate in some pharmachemistry (not sure of exact name).  I have also heard about it from others.  If it has no side effects, I would think it would be a better alternative than just drinking more alcohol.

I'm just attempting to see if there is any known side effects/negative health effects with Phenibut and alchol combined.

[Skysky0029]

So, does anyone else have any information on this?  Or better yet a good psychiatrist or doctor who will actually respond to this question?  I have asked around but gotten no responses from the medical professionals I did ask.

[Wreath]

Hi there.
Since Phenibut is derivative of GABA and belong to nootropics, I can give you some experience with another GABA - like nootropic called Piracetam. I've been using Piracetam in dosage sometimes reaching 7g /day and I've never observed any problems when drinking alcohol. I've read that Piracetam should have effect on "being drunk quickly", but I've never felt that way.
But I'm not saying Phenibut is the same, and I'm not saying Piracetam affects me like everyone else.

[Skysky0029]

Yeah, I don't know.  It has such a low toxicity level (aka, it takes a lot to make it toxic).  Again, my biggest concern is with health effects with an interaction between it and alcohol. 

For example, you shouldn't take certain pills with alcohol due to problems it can cause to your health.

How does that drug intensify alcohol effects anyways as well?

[JGK]

Yeah, I don't know.  It has such a low toxicity level (aka, it takes a lot to make it toxic).  Again, my biggest concern is with health effects with an interaction between it and alcohol. 

For example, you shouldn't take certain pills with alcohol due to problems it can cause to your health.

How does that drug intensify alcohol effects anyways as well?

the presence of the drug may saturate the normal metabolic pathways causing a slowdown in alcohol removal from the system. The extended presence of alcohol in the system may trigger non-routine metabolic processes which may cause toxicity

[Skysky0029]

JGK, do you know that for fact or are just speculating on it?

I have a feeling that it has more to do with how it effects GABA (alcohol does that as well as Phenibut).  My only concern is how it effects the health of the person doing it. 

I know even drugs like Xanax aren't really dangerous to use with alcohol (I was precribed some at one point in life but don't take it anymore and I don't believe the doctor said it was dangerous).  All that is said on the precription that I had was that it will ENHANCE the effects of alcohol.  It said nothing about not taking it with alcohol.  I did do some research on xanax and alcohol and it did say to be careful though for many reasons.  Probably drinking not to excess with Xanax would be safe though.

I'm not fully convinced there is really any danger to this.  Otherwise I'm guessing the FDA would make it so it couldn't be sold as a supplement.

[JGK]

I was speculating. However, the body removes alcohol through metabolic pathways and excretes the products. If the drug "enhances" the effects of alcohol, one possibility is that it prevents/slow/reduces the metabolism and excretion of alcohol.

[beaner21]

I've used phenibut many times, mostly on its own but also in conjuction with alcohol and benzodiazepines.

I have no expertise in pharmacology but I would say that the reason it potentiates alocohol is because of its GABA-ergic effects. Phenibut can be extremely sedating especially in high doses, useful for sleep but sometimes unpleasant. That said however, I once took ~14gm's of it in one go and as far as I know suffered no harm (apart from sleeping like a log for about 10 hours). So I would say that it is quite safe in overdose and it doesn't seem to repress breathing or anything like that.

Also, I doubt (going from personal experience) that there is any real risk with combining phenibut and alcohol (in moderation) compared to combining opiates or benzos with alcohol.
Phenibut is mainly active on GABA-B receptors while alcohol acts at GABA-A and in my experience the combination of these subtances is more synergistic rather than one potentiating the other.

A normal dose would be about 2g - 3g. However, some of the phenibut from certain manufacturers is a racemic mixture of the two enantiomers (one potent enantiomer and one not so potent) while other manufacturers use only the more potent enantiomer. If the product is labeled as phenibut XT then it's the more potent one, if its just labeled phenibut (no XT) then its probably a mixture. Obviously the dosage for the more potent products is lower.

Phenibut also affects the serotonin system in some way because the initial effects it produces (ie. half an hour or so after taking a dose) is one of slight "rushes" in your stomach and a kind of "loved up" feeling that I am familiar with from other serotonergic compounds (MDMA, BZP, Kanna, Psilocin).
Very little research has been done on the pharmacology involved with these effects so if you choose to use phenibut (therapeutically or recreationally) you should be aware of the possible risk of long term unobservable damage (ie. neurotoxic effects similar to other serotonergics, such as MDMA).

Another effect it has is repressing the release of PEA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylethylamine, however, the day after taking a dose of phenibut you will notice what they call the "afterglow", this is where you will feel somewhat "tweaked" or stimulated, like the effects of a small amount of an amphetamine except it lasts the whole of the following day and can bring some slight anxiety with it. I woud attribute this "afterglow" to the release of all the PEA that had been accumulating while the phenibut was active in the body (but thats just speculation, like I said no-one knows exactly what is involved).

Phenibut also can cause tinnitus (ringing in the ears) but I've noticed this with alcohol as well and I would'nt worry to much about it.

Phenibut is somewhat like alcohol in that it's effects are often different from one dose to the next. For example sometimes it's very sedating other times stimulating without sedation.

So, like I said, it wont necessarily enable you to get "drunk" after two drinks (ie. pontentiating alcohol) but it will add to the buzz of the alcohol so that you won't feel the need to drink so much (ie. synergising with the alcohol) and you will sleep like a baby afterwards

As for other things to take to potentiate alcohol, I highly recommend cocoa powder (ie. chocolate powder). If you get some raw cacao (cocoa) powder (not the kind you buy in the supermarket. The kind you buy in a healthfood store) and add about one heaped tablespoon to a cup of hot water, then drink that about 30-40 minutes before you start drinking, it will seriously potentiate the alcohol, one pint of beer will have you reeling (in a good way), two pints will having you buzzin your *(#$ off!

I don't know what the mechanism with cocoa and alcohol is but cocoa does contain a lot of psychoactives which could be involved eg. theobromine, tyrosine, tyramine, PEA, anandamide, theophylline etc. It also has flavanols (types of antioxidants) in it which have been shown to cause vasodilation (expanding of the blood vessels) thereby increasing blood flow to the brain. This could be the reason it causes you to get drunk easier becuase there's more alcohol getting to the brain.
Again, if you decide to take cocoa with alcohol caution should be excercised eg. don't drink any red bulls because you will be over stimulated and could start hyperventilating and stuff.