December 22, 2024, 11:36:02 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Help with identifying unknown compound  (Read 11772 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Raginraj89

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Help with identifying unknown compound
« on: March 31, 2010, 03:29:20 PM »
Hi. For our lab, we need to identify an unknown compound using IR, Mass spec, H-NMR, and C-NMR. I' am terrible at analyzing this data so i was looking for some assistance. The mass spec data shows C: 54.9%, H: 4.61%, O: 31.34% and N: 9.15%. The compound i tested was a yellow powder. If you can help me, i can also send you a pdf of all the data. Thanks so much!

Offline w00tage19

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 04:43:31 PM »
What are some of the important peaks/stretches in your IR/NMR/MS data?

Offline MOTOBALL

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
  • Mole Snacks: +52/-5
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 09:03:42 PM »
I have to say that I'm not surprised that you have problems analyzing data, since you clearly don't know the difference between elemental composition data and a mass spectrum.

At least determine the empirical formula yourself as a start.

Offline pacifyer

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
  • Mole Snacks: +6/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2010, 12:32:47 PM »
This problem is rather simple, kinda kindergarden chemistry, actually. No need of spectral data, I believe...

You just need to find the formula, which is C7H7NO3, then start thinking, use the hydrogen deficiency index, deduce it must be an aromatic compound, with an OMe and NO2 group... then search for properties of each isomer, and deduce that the only possible answer is... well, I can give you the answer for 50 bucks!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



OK, this time for free: o-nitroanisole.

Offline Raginraj89

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2010, 02:46:23 PM »
This problem is rather simple, kinda kindergarden chemistry, actually. No need of spectral data, I believe...

You just need to find the formula, which is C7H7NO3, then start thinking, use the hydrogen deficiency index, deduce it must be an aromatic compound, with an OMe and NO2 group... then search for properties of each isomer, and deduce that the only possible answer is... well, I can give you the answer for 50 bucks!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



OK, this time for free: o-nitroanisole.

Yeah i got the same empirical formula yesterday. Im just having a hard time finding the important peaks in the IR data. Theres a very sharp peak around 3520 cm-1 wavenumbers which i feel is uncharacteristic for this compound  ???.

Offline Raginraj89

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 04:24:01 PM »
Finished up the IR data and mass spec data. Anybody have any tips on how to successfully analyze H-NMR and C-NMR?

Offline Raginraj89

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 05:47:40 PM »
Im analyzing the C-NMR data and there are 5 peaks, which indicates that there are 5 different carbons in the compound? What happened to the other 2 carbons, that are not shown by the C-NMR data? I appreciate any help.

Offline democanarchis

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 72
  • Mole Snacks: +9/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2010, 07:47:49 AM »
Im analyzing the C-NMR data and there are 5 peaks, which indicates that there are 5 different carbons in the compound? What happened to the other 2 carbons, that are not shown by the C-NMR data? I appreciate any help.

As this is a disubstituted aromatic ring, we have 2 quaternary carbons, which have a very weak 13C signal. They are probably obscured by the baseline, to see them you'd have to increase the concentration of your sample, the number of scans, and if possible use a NMR with a stronger magnet or move your probe closer

Offline Dan

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4716
  • Mole Snacks: +469/-72
  • Gender: Male
  • Organic Chemist
    • My research
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2010, 08:59:51 AM »
I don't see any evidence other than elemental analysis. I think assignment of any structure based on that evidence cannot be done with anything remotely close to certainty. There are quite a few isomers of C7H7NO3...

o-nitroanisole is not consistent with 5 peaks in the 13C, the fact that you have 5 peaks could be due to a weak sample not picking up quaternaries, or we could assume the experiment was done properly... only 5 peaks could mean that there are 2 pairs of equivalent carbons, in which case p-nitroanisole could be a candidate. That said there is no convincing evidence presented for the presence of an aromatic ring at all. Post some spectra, or ot least give some nmr shifts...
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 09:24:54 AM by Dan »
My research: Google Scholar and Researchgate

Offline Raginraj89

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2010, 03:21:04 PM »
I don't see any evidence other than elemental analysis. I think assignment of any structure based on that evidence cannot be done with anything remotely close to certainty. There are quite a few isomers of C7H7NO3...

o-nitroanisole is not consistent with 5 peaks in the 13C, the fact that you have 5 peaks could be due to a weak sample not picking up quaternaries, or we could assume the experiment was done properly... only 5 peaks could mean that there are 2 pairs of equivalent carbons, in which case p-nitroanisole could be a candidate. That said there is no convincing evidence presented for the presence of an aromatic ring at all. Post some spectra, or ot least give some nmr shifts...

This data was provided to us by our instructor so we had no control over how the experiment was done. Everything makes sense, except for the C-NMR data. All of the other data points towards o-nitroanisole as the unknown compound. Here is the data that was given to us:






Offline pacifyer

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
  • Mole Snacks: +6/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2010, 06:03:47 PM »
Now, I see in the spectra a p-disubstituted pattern, in 1H as well as in 13C NMR. That is why you have 5 signals: two pairs are identical in the 13C spectrum. The ONLY substitution pattern that gives you two doublets in the 1H NMR, is p-disubstituted.
As a homework, use the MS data to confirm the structure. Look for M-15 (Me), M-31 (OMe), M-17 (OH), M-46 (NO2), etc.
You can also search in the IR spectrum if the substitution pattern appears, looking the overtones at 2000-1660 cm-1. If so, it would be another confirmation of structure.

Offline Dan

  • Retired Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4716
  • Mole Snacks: +469/-72
  • Gender: Male
  • Organic Chemist
    • My research
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2010, 06:24:26 PM »
Now, I see in the spectra a p-disubstituted pattern,

Agreed, but this is cannot be a nitroanisole. Notice the relative integrations in the 1H nmr - 4H aromatic then a 2H and 1H - there is no evidence for a methyl group here. DEPT (to find CH2) and HMQC (to find OH) would be helpful - but based on the IR peak in the OH region mentioned earlier by the original poster and the typical CH2OH in the 13C (~63 ppm) I suspect this is actually p-nitrobenzyl alcohol and not p-nitroanisole.
My research: Google Scholar and Researchgate

Offline Raginraj89

  • New Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Mole Snacks: +0/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2010, 09:36:11 PM »
Looking at the IR data, there is a sharp peak at 3510 cm-1 which indicates an OH (alcohol), so it cant be o-nitroanisole. Also, when I was performing the IR analysis, the unknown compound I used was a yellow grity powder (might help with identification of compound).

Edit: After going back and double checking everything, the unknown was determined to be 4-nitrobenzyl alcohol.

Thanks to everyone who helped out!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 09:50:40 PM by Raginraj89 »

Offline pacifyer

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
  • Mole Snacks: +6/-0
Re: Help with identifying unknown compound
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 01:15:19 PM »
 ;D

Sponsored Links