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Topic: NMR Multiplicities  (Read 8020 times)

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Offline taurean

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NMR Multiplicities
« on: June 21, 2010, 10:00:46 PM »
Is there a website or a book where I can get all possible multiplicities (different variants) and all possible shapes of the peaks for H NMR?


Offline a student

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 10:44:02 AM »

Offline azmanam

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Offline taurean

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2010, 10:19:19 PM »
Guys, thanks for the replies.

Azmanam,

I read through Hoye's JOC, 2002 paper, but I did not understand much from it.  Could you please explain, if possible, in simpler terms?

taurean


start here (for beginners):

http://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtTxtJml/Spectrpy/nmr/nmr1.htm#nmr1

continue here (for advance-ers):

http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jo001139v
http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jo00094a018


Offline azmanam

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2010, 06:14:25 AM »
Depends on what you're looking for.  If you're an undergrad student just working through NMR for the first time, then the JOC papers are way beyond the scope of the course.  If you're a grad student trying to find J values for a publication, the JOC papers will help you sift through complex multiplicities in the NMR spectra you have obtained.

What level are you?
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Offline taurean

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2010, 10:15:02 AM »
I am a grad student, trying to interpret some of complex peaks in my spectra.



Depends on what you're looking for.  If you're an undergrad student just working through NMR for the first time, then the JOC papers are way beyond the scope of the course.  If you're a grad student trying to find J values for a publication, the JOC papers will help you sift through complex multiplicities in the NMR spectra you have obtained.

What level are you?

Offline azmanam

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2010, 12:06:39 PM »
some complex signals (especially diastereotopic protons with lots of different neighbors or signals corresponding to homotopically different protons that happen to overlap) are really just too complex, and we label them multiplets and move on. 

For well separated signals, it is most accurate to tease out the various J values and report them.  But finding all the J values for a dddd signal is not always straightforward.  I use the 1994 paper to match up my signal with the predicted signals in the paper to determine exactly what the splitting is (dddd, dt, etc).  Then I'll go to the 2002 paper to actually calculate the J values. 

The flow chart in Chart 1 is really what you need.  Convert all your ppms to Hz and list them largest to smallest.  Notation like {1 to 2} refers to the signal peak numbered from left to right.  For each 'd' in the splitting pattern, you get d2 peaks.  A d is 2 peaks, dd is 4, ddd is 8, dddd is 16, etc... However, due to equivalent J values, etc, some of the peaks overlap within a signal.  So a dddd which should have 16 peaks, may only show 10 peaks - of various heights.  The taller peaks correspond to accumulated smaller peaks... but all 16 peaks should be there (see Fig 2 in the 2002 paper).  So find out where all your d2 peaks are and number them 1 - d2.  Then use the Flow chart to find J1, J2, J3, J4, ...
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 12:54:24 PM by azmanam »
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Offline azmanam

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2010, 12:43:25 PM »
Some examples from a recent NMR I calculated J values for (all signals came from the same NMR of an aldehyde I characterized).  Note the condensed, text ready version at the bottom of each image.

Protip: Excel is your friend:
Knowing why you got a question wrong is better than knowing that you got a question right.

Offline taurean

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2010, 01:15:13 PM »
Dude Azmanam, You made my day.  It was an absolutely fabulous explanation.  Thanks for taking time to go through this explanation.  It was very helpful.  Trying to write a paper, and it made my job lot easier.

Can you please tell me why you mentioned "Protip: Excel is your friend:"?

Thank you very much.



Some examples from a recent NMR I calculated J values for (all signals came from the same NMR of an aldehyde I characterized).  Note the condensed, text ready version at the bottom of each image.

Protip: Excel is your friend:

Offline azmanam

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2010, 08:27:25 AM »
unless you really like your calculator, excel can do the repetitive tasks for you and cut down the time spend doing math an increase the time spent doing chemistry.  All of the calculations above were done in excel, many with copy/paste, and by making yourself a template, you can just fill in the new Hz values for your new signal and save a lot of calculation time.
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Offline taurean

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 04:23:28 PM »
Thank you azmanam.


unless you really like your calculator, excel can do the repetitive tasks for you and cut down the time spend doing math an increase the time spent doing chemistry.  All of the calculations above were done in excel, many with copy/paste, and by making yourself a template, you can just fill in the new Hz values for your new signal and save a lot of calculation time.

Offline DearAntarctica

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Re: NMR Multiplicities
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2010, 02:25:02 AM »
My undergrad spectroscopy course just waved away all situations in which the j-value is too close to the difference in frequency and stated that these (second-order spectra) and don't observe any sort of regular (even if overlapping) splitting (and if you wanted to glean anything useful from that area, you'd need to run it at higher field).  Is this not actually correct?

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