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Topic: Organic bases  (Read 5141 times)

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Offline nox

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Organic bases
« on: July 06, 2011, 11:45:44 AM »
A friend asked me if all organic bases were nitrogen based, I said no and he challenged me to name a few non-nitrogenous organic bases.

The most obvious examples are of course carbon-based ones like BuLi. After further research it seems that certain alkyl phosphines (eg PMe3 has a pKa of 8.651) could be considered as bases. However, I always figured there should be more variety than just C, N, P. And let's not forget that carbon bases are invariably anionic in nature.

So I ask this, can you think of any neutral organic base that is NOT based on nitrogen or phosphorus?


1JACS, 1960, 82(22), 5791

Offline Honclbrif

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 12:32:28 PM »
Carbene
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Offline azmanam

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2011, 02:02:41 PM »
Neutral alcohols are basic if the price is right (pKa of protonated alcohols is ~-3ish).  Anything with a pKa less than ~-3 will be deprotonated by an alcohol (things like mineral acids, etc).

Neutral carbonyl groups (ketones, aldehydes, etc) are basic, again if the price is right.  pKa of protonated carbonyl groups is also ~-3ish.  Sulfuric acid is readily deprotonated by ketones and aldehdyes to form protonated carbonyl groups.
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Offline Honclbrif

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2011, 02:16:04 PM »
Let's not forget what Olah taught us: a strong enough acid will protonate methane or xenon.
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Offline nox

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2011, 06:55:10 PM »
Geez guys now we're just grasping at straws here, I mean if Bob Barker even nitric acid can act as a base! :P

Offline Honclbrif

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2011, 08:18:33 PM »
All acid/base behavior is by definition relative. You need to set your boundary conditions better next time.
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Offline nox

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2011, 08:58:25 PM »
Fine, let's restrict ourselves to only those bases whose conjugate acid has a pKa of at least 7.

Offline Åke

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2011, 09:40:09 PM »
I was hoping to say phosphazenes1 but then I noticed that phosphorus was not allowed.  :P

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphazene

Offline nox

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2011, 10:11:44 PM »
^Those are semi-well known, at least for Schwesinger's P4 base. Regardless, the site of basicity is still at nitrogen, so I would still classify those as nitrogenous bases.

Offline Åke

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Re: Organic bases
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2011, 11:22:30 PM »
Thanks - I'll look that up. Going down the group 15, I suppose arsines should be at least weakly basic but I'm guessing again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triphenylarsine

Edit: Actually, tricyclohexylphosphine or PCy3 is a stronger base (pKa = 9.70) than trimethylphosphine (pKa = 8.75).1 Thus, tricyclohexylarsine should be a good candidate.

1. Hu, B.; Gay, I. D. 31P NMR Investigation of Surface Acidity Using Adsorbed Tricyclohexylphosphine as a Probe. Langmuir 1995, 11, 3845 http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/la00010a039
« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 11:58:53 PM by Åke »

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