[Idiotfool]

Good morning, all.

I'm in the process of trying to decide on an FTIR unit that will eventually be coupled with Raman.  Horiba and Thermo Scientific were the only companies to write me back when I asked for a quote and I've been debating on models ever since.

Horiba has their LabRam Aramis IR2 system which is one moderately sized Raman unit with FTIR microscope.  What I like about it is that it is able to do optical, FTIR and Raman analysis on a single point and allows for a sweep scan map of a sample of interest doing all three techniques.  Its footprint is not any larger than a standard Microscopic Raman.  The FTIR module is of Smith's Detection: has anybody had exerience with that and can comment?

Thermo's unit is three separate peices of equipment that are stacked together.  The unit cannot run Raman analysis through the microscope and, were I to do mapping as above, I'd have to do it under the microscope on a stage, then move the sample over to the Raman unit (with separate stage) and map it again.  The benefit here is that the Raman is FT-Raman with reduced flourescence and improved signal-to-noise and that the FT-IR unit can be run, alone, with standard techniques at higher resolution.  I already have an FTIR unit from Thermo that has been pretty robust and they're good about answering issues through phone help.  However, when asking the service tech about the FTIR/Raman/Microscope unit, he told me something that the unit is incapable of doing (using the microscope on the Raman analysis) which doesn't fill me with expectation on their ability.

I had decided on Horiba but I've heard mixed reviews about their service department.  Has anybody else had recent experience with them and could offer an opinion?  Do you find the SameSpot technique useful?

I had contacted a professor who had the LabRam IR unit's description on her graduate student instrument direction page, but she had a negative opinion about the FTIR detector and said it has poor signal to noise at 650 to 1500 cm-1.  Since both manufacturers appear to use an MCT B detector for the microscope, is it really going to be much different from one company to the other?  Is this the nature of MCT B detectors?

Thanks!

[marquis]

I have limited experience with raman.  But extensive experience with microscope FTIR.

The names have changed a little bit, too.  A question about the Thermo unit you are talking about.  Was this company formerly Nicolet (or thermo-nicolet)? 

The Nicolet units have a good reputation.  My experience was with Perkin Elmer i-series microscope FTIR, which did well also.  The region from 1500 to 650 reciprocal cm was noisier with our MCT detector.  But the noise didn't dramatically affect spectrum quality. Think that is just the nature of the beast. 

Sorry, but don't know anything about Lab Ram.

Can you pass along some information?  How did they modify the microscope FTIR to do Raman?  We investigated modifying the i- series for raman a few years ago.  The price we were quoted was outrageous, so we didn't do it. 

[Idiotfool]

I have limited experience with raman.  But extensive experience with microscope FTIR.

The names have changed a little bit, too.  A question about the Thermo unit you are talking about.  Was this company formerly Nicolet (or thermo-nicolet)?  

The Nicolet units have a good reputation.  My experience was with Perkin Elmer i-series microscope FTIR, which did well also.  The region from 1500 to 650 reciprocal cm was noisier with our MCT detector.  But the noise didn't dramatically affect spectrum quality. Think that is just the nature of the beast.  

Sorry, but don't know anything about Lab Ram.

Can you pass along some information?  How did they modify the microscope FTIR to do Raman?  We investigated modifying the i- series for raman a few years ago.  The price we were quoted was outrageous, so we didn't do it.  

Thanks for the information.  Yes, Thermo produces the Nicolet units.  I have an existing Nicolet and it's been pretty stalwart but its life is nearly over.  Thank you, too, for confirmation that signal-to-noise is poor in other units using MCT at the expected region.

The Thermo unit is an FT-Raman setup that has its own microstage, separate from the microscope attached to the FTIR.  The Raman and FTIR (Thermo's Nicolet 6700) share some optics, like the interferometer, but that's about it.  To do micro-Raman and FTIR mapping, one has to move the sample plate from the Continuum FTIR microscope over to the Raman micro-stage.

The unit from Horiba is a micro-dispersive Raman system.  The Olympus Microscope they use is integrated into the Raman design, first.  To this microscope is added a Smith's Detection FTIR, which is capable of coupling to a wide variety of research-grade microscopes.  I'm unsure if there is any Raman unit comparable to the Smith's Detection setup that can just be slapped onto a microscope.  

For the record, too, the whole system I'm looking to buy is not cheap.  A standalone Raman unit is a much cheaper option, but it does not allow for the SameSpot analysis of the LabRam and this ability is very important to me.

[Federico Izzia]

Good afternoon
I am the Thermo Scientific FT-IR marketing manager and I'd like to answer some of your questions and comments.

The hyphenation to which you are referring is an FTIR module from one manufacturer coupled to a dispersive Raman from another; it is a design that adds some infrared micro sampling capabilities to Raman microscopes, but certainly not the full analytical flexibility and sensitivity of dedicated infrared microscopes. (Dedicated hi-performance infrared microscopes deliver spatial resolution close to, or better the diffraction limit (10 microns), transmission analysis capabilities and ultra-fast chemical imaging, and a superior overall sensitivity). Also, Thermo Scientific offers two types of Raman instruments: FT-Raman (which can be standalone or integrated with an FTIR system and offers basic micro sampling), and dispersive Raman microscopy.  Our FTIR microscopes are optically optimized for the highest mid infrared spatial resolution while our Raman microscopes are optimized for Raman sensitivity and spectral resolution performance, with the ease of use of alignment-free configurable optics.  Raman spatial resolution, assuming alignment is optimized or built-in in the design like in our DXR system, is intrinsic of the technique (1 micron). With reference to the three units you mentioned, that would be necessary only in the case of the FT-Raman system. If you are looking for top performance IR and Raman microscopy systems, you may wish to consider our Nicolet iN10 microscope which is a stand-alone unit featuring integrated FT-IR optics, with patented beam conditioning optics for highest possible performance in infrared microscopy. The Nicolet iN10 combined with the DXR dispersive Raman microscope represent a very powerful instrument set up that delivers ease of use and flexibility in both Raman and infrared microscopy, high spatial resolution, chemical imaging and sampling configurability. The two instruments use the same sample stage and you could enter the sample coordinates to - maybe not exactly - but quickly reposition the sample X-Y location coordinates by software. With regards to MCT detectors, we use a roprietary design dewar coupled with an MCT-A element which offers superior signal to noise up to 650 cm-1. If you wish to discuss your needs in further details, please do not hesitate to contact us or your nearest Thermo Scientific representative.

Best regards


Federico Izzia
FT-IR Marketing Manager
Edit: email removed
Thermo Fisher Scientific
Scientific Instruments - Molecular Spectroscopy
 
5225 Verona Road Madison, WI 53711

[edherzac712]

Hi!!! the estimative hybrid raman/ftir microscope price is?