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Offline Rutherford

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Solutions
« on: January 13, 2012, 09:06:36 AM »
Ok, I know that I am boring, but this is the last type of problems that I need to prepare for my exam and that I can't solve. Please help me with this and I won't bother you soon.
Can in one solution at the same time exist:
Mg(2+) and Cl(-)
Ca(2+) and Cl(-)
Ca(2+) and CO3(2-)
Ca(2+) and HCO3(-)
Ca(2+) and PO4(3-)
Ca(2+) and HPO4(2-)
BaCl2 and K2CrO4
Na2SO4 and K2CO3
AlCl3 and Na2CO3
KMnO4 and NaNO2?
Have I to remember the answers or there is some logic explanation?

Offline DevaDevil

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 09:23:32 AM »
You have to remember some basic solubility rules, but I agree that in most cases here you would have to have access to a solubility chart

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 09:51:10 AM »
Like DevaDevil: said, there is a listing of common solubility rules that you should learn, however, if you're stuck without a table on the exam, you can try to reason it out.  Try to group these ions together, and see if a pattern emerges.  Consider the salts formed, do you recognize any?
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 09:58:41 AM »
I won't have an access to a solubility chart, and I found on the net some rules so I will learn them. So, if the compounds are soluble then an exchange between the cations will occur like in some of the last four examples?

Offline DevaDevil

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 10:03:02 AM »
in the last 4 examples, look for the ions that will emerge after you dissolve each compound individually. If there is a combination of cation + anion in the mix that is insoluble, then that compound will crystallize out.
(Example: Barium chloride and potassium chromate: Barium chromate is very insoluble)

Also, the last example is different. Think of a reaction there, rather than just solution.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 10:12:07 AM »
Yes, if all compounds are soluble, then we assume the solution contains all ions.  Which is what the question asks.  The question doesn't explicitly ask what possible precipitated compounds will form.  Kinda subtle difference, but still, that's the point this problem wants to make, and you should play along.

Note:  If the assignment is too look up now, for later use, the existance of ions in solution, you'll want to look up the properties of AlCl3.  It might just be sloppy question writing, but there is an Aha! Gotcha! there.
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 10:32:13 AM »
I understand, but I can't find the solubility rules for the hydrogen-salts like HSO4-, HCO3-, H2PO3-. If someone knows the solubility of some more important hydrogen-salts please tell me.

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 10:35:39 AM »
And I need for fluorids(F-), too.
By the way, AlCl3 reacts with watter instead with Na2CO3?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 10:49:35 AM by Raderford »

Offline DevaDevil

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 11:12:37 AM »
I understand, but I can't find the solubility rules for the hydrogen-salts like HSO4-, HCO3-, H2PO3-. If someone knows the solubility of some more important hydrogen-salts please tell me.

look for the solubity of the non-hydrogen containing part, as the acid/base equilibrium will kick in.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 11:32:39 AM »
And I need for fluorids(F-), too.
By the way, AlCl3 reacts with watter instead with Na2CO3?

Good work, check with the teacher to see what they want on a T/F or multiple guess question.  If your exam has essay questions, then you can give an explicit explanation, and get the most credit.

The F- solubilities will be available with others in a textbook chart.  Or just Google solubility rules, people are often posting a list to help them study for exams.
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 01:03:46 PM »
I understand, but I can't find the solubility rules for the hydrogen-salts like HSO4-, HCO3-, H2PO3-. If someone knows the solubility of some more important hydrogen-salts please tell me.

look for the solubity of the non-hydrogen containing part, as the acid/base equilibrium will kick in.
I don't understand this.
And I need for fluorids(F-), too.
By the way, AlCl3 reacts with watter instead with Na2CO3?

Good work, check with the teacher to see what they want on a T/F or multiple guess question.  If your exam has essay questions, then you can give an explicit explanation, and get the most credit.

The F- solubilities will be available with others in a textbook chart.  Or just Google solubility rules, people are often posting a list to help them study for exams.
I tried to find on google but I couldn't, and no explanation is needed, we only write yes or no.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 01:17:38 PM »
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 02:03:58 PM »
Everywhere are Cl-,I-,Br- but not F- and hydrogen-salts!

Offline DevaDevil

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 07:24:24 PM »
for HSO-, see solubility of SO42- is what I meant to say

aka, look for the ion without the proton, as it will be present in the acid/base equilibrium anyway:
HSO4- <--> SO42- + H+

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 05:43:56 AM »
for HSO-, see solubility of SO42- is what I meant to say

aka, look for the ion without the proton, as it will be present in the acid/base equilibrium anyway:
HSO4- <--> SO42- + H+
So, the solubility of HSO4(-) is the same as SO4(2-), and for HCO3(-) the same as for CO3(2-)?

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