[Guitarmaniac86]

Hi everyone,

I just want to ask a question regarding PhD's. How many rejections did you get before you got an interview, and how many interviews before you actually landed a PhD.

I have been applying since October and have so far been rejected from Bristol, Sussex and the University of East Anglia. I have applied for a different project with a different supervisor at UEA (this is about 4 months after rejection from a similar project).

I have been applying to total synthesis and medicinal chemistry PhD's and I am worried I wont get anything by the time October rolls around. I am highly interested in synthetic organic chemistry that does not involve polymers or protein synthesis... I dont know why I just dont find these areas that interesting, though I understand their relevance.

I am worried that my 2ii at BSc and current distinction (72.3% average) at masters level wont be good enough for a PhD and that this is the reason I am being rejected despite my awesome research project I am pursuing at masters level.

I really want to do research. Itd all Ive ever wanted to do since I started studying chemistry at GCSE level.

... I know I sound all whiny but meh, rejection is hard to take when you are enthusiastic

[DrCMS]

When I did mine only students with a 1st or 2i got automatic funding from the research councils.  So if a lecturer took on a student with a 2ii either the lecturer or the student needed to pay the fees and living expenses etc.  You say you are doing a masters and doing well but you haven't finished it yet so you are still a risk for a lecturer.  Looking at your profile the Uni you are doing your masters at is a long way down the league tables from the Uni's you are applying to do a PhD at, that is not going to help.  Once you have completed your masters you may have more chance.

I realise this is not what you want to hear but there is no point in you banging your head against a brick wall day in day out.

Being very honest with you life's tough and PhD's are meant to be for the brightest and the best not just anyone gets to do one.  If you were a just bit lazy during your degree but have now grown up some and are putting the effort in then once you have a good masters you'll stand a better chance.  If you worked you arse off during your degree and still only got a 2ii then you will really struggle to finish a PhD.  It is better to not start one than drop out and fail it later, if I got a CV from 2 people with a 2ii and one started and then failed a PhD while the other got an entry level job I'd bin the CV from the failed PhD.

I'm sick of hearing people whinge and moan that they want something but either they haven't or can't put the work in to achieve it.  Life is not going to hand you a living on a plate you need to earn it.

[Guitarmaniac86]

When I did mine only students with a 1st or 2i got automatic funding from the research councils.  So if a lecturer took on a student with a 2ii either the lecturer or the student needed to pay the fees and living expenses etc.  You say you are doing a masters and doing well but you haven't finished it yet so you are still a risk for a lecturer.  Looking at your profile the Uni you are doing your masters at is a long way down the league tables from the Uni's you are applying to do a PhD at, that is not going to help.  Once you have completed your masters you may have more chance.

I realise this is not what you want to hear but there is no point in you banging your head against a brick wall day in day out.

Being very honest with you life's tough and PhD's are meant to be for the brightest and the best not just anyone gets to do one.  If you were a just bit lazy during your degree but have now grown up some and are putting the effort in then once you have a good masters you'll stand a better chance.  If you worked you arse off during your degree and still only got a 2ii then you will really struggle to finish a PhD.  It is better to not start one than drop out and fail it later, if I got a CV from 2 people with a 2ii and one started and then failed a PhD while the other got an entry level job I'd bin the CV from the failed PhD.

Thank you for your reply, its the reality check I needed. None of my lecturers will even be honest with me. They just say "Well persons x y z went on to do a PhD at Oxford, Leeds... So theres no reason why you cant do it." No one is honest enough to say I am a risk.

I dont like explaining the following in cover letters or personal statements because I just feel its a cop-out and that I am just making excuses, but during my undergraduate I was a pig headed. When I started first year I became very sick and had to drop out mid way and start again. It took doctors 9 months to figure out I had a serious infection, and they put me on antibiotics and a few months later I recovered. I went back to uni and got a first in my first year. In second year I became seriously ill again and spent more time in hospital than actually attending uni. This is where I became pig headed. Doctors and lecturers told me to drop out and come back when I was better. I was told I needed bed rest etc however I thought I could still study and get excellent grades. I thought "Plenty of people get ill and still get a 2i or a first so why cant I?" So I tried and in second year missed the 2i by 1% which annoyed me.

Final year was my saving grace, I was no longer very ill and I only had to go to hospital once a month. I managed to get a mid level 2i by the end of the first semester. In my second semester I was ill again and almost didnt finish, and dropped from a 64% average to a 59% average and I ended up with the 2ii.

I dont believe that it was the constant hospital visits and illnesses that prevented me from obtaining the magical 2i. It was my pig headedness. I never struggled with the material, I just wasnt well enough to study and I didnt listen to the doctors who told me to take things easy. It was hard but like you said, life is hard and you just have to get on with it.

I took a year out between undergrad and my current masters to recover and now that I am free of illness, I have done a lot better. I havent struggled with the work load and I know I am more than capable of gaining a distinction this semester because I am working even harder now than ever. And I think that was the problem at undergrad, despite being ill, I didnt work hard enough, and I am paying the price now.

[quoteI'm sick of hearing people whinge and moan that they want something but either they haven't or can't put the work in to achieve it.  Life is not going to hand you a living on a plate you need to earn it.
[/quote]

I think I can achieve what I want to achieve with hard work and hindsight, I just need people to be as brutally honest with me as they can. If I am not good enough for a PhD I need to know it now so that I can try and find a job or pursue something else. And I needed a wake up call from somewhere.

[Dan]

There are several factors that are useful for getting a PhD:

1st or 2i undergrad + masters
Highly ranked institution for undergrad/masters
Research project with a well known supervisor (i.e. good publication record) + excellent reference
Publications

You should focus on publishing your work, a paper will massively increase your chances because it proves you can do the job. I know this is easier said than done though, and the process can take a long time. With the UK industry in trouble, postgraduate study is getting more popular and competitive. If I were you I would also apply for short term industrial posts (this is extremely competitive as well) and other jobs to pay the bills while you keep looking for a PhD you want to do (I assume your desire to start in October is financially motivated?). If you start a PhD in an area you don't really find interesting, you won't finish it and it will be a complete waste of time. Also apply abroad where opportunities may be better.

You can also send speculative applications to groups that are not advertising positions (these are long shots so don't expect too much). Attach a cover letter an CV as pdf. files, keep the body of the email as short as possible otherwise it won't be read.

[DrCMS]

I'm very glad to see you take my reply positively; that shows me you have got the right attitude to do well. 

I was trying to be as honest as possible with you; I hate people who lie and evade the question rather than be honest.  Yes it's not nice to hurt someone's feeling in the short term but if that's going to help them in the long run only a coward would not be honest.  I see and hear too many teachers/lecturers being cowards these days.

My take on degrees is this:

1st you need to work hard and be very clever.
2i you need either to work hard or be very clever or more likely somewhere in between both
2ii you might be a bit thick and work hard or quite bright and lazy but probably you're average
3rd you were lazy and not too bright

You seem, from the grades you got when you were not ill, to be quite bright but unlucky in health.  I'm glad you are in good health now.  My advice would be to put in the time and energy to maximise your masters right now.  Concentrate on getting the best grade you can and try to get something published as Dan suggested.

Once you have that done then try again for PhD programs but also try to get some industrial experience.  Employers want to see some experience at least as much as qualifications.

[OC pro]

You could also go outside UK for Ph.D... the world is big. Here in Germany I see a fair chance.