[ashman]

Background:
I am researching the use of ash in ancient cleansing and healing practices.  As part of my research, I am trying to get a good handle on:

• the combustion products of a “blended fuel” mixture, (i.e., the predominant ash compounds)
• the potential uses for the final ash mixture from the “blended fuel”, particularly in cleansing (i.e., use as soap) or healing (i.e., using as topical agent on skin), used in either wet (mixed with water) and dry states.

Input:
The “blended fuel” would be a mixture of:
   a)  wood (say pine),
   b)  animals (say cows or goats), and
   c)  grains (say wheat plus salt).

Discussion:
My understanding of chemistry is limited (haven’t balanced any equations in any in over 20 years), but this what I have been able to glean so far from internet research: 
a)  Wood ash
I understand that burning wood will make ash with CaCO3, and calcium potassium carbonate, K2Ca(CO3)2 (http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1993/misra93a.pdf).  I also understand that you can add water to the wood ash to leach the chemicals out and get potash or lye, which you can concentrate to get a stronger base to mix with fat and make soap.  I also understand that dry ashes from wood can be applied to open wounds to accelerate healing, and that it was even done in ancient days.   (http://www.pps.org.pk/PJP/5-1/Hamid.pdf)

b)  Animal ash
I understand that ash from animals / bones will make tricalcium phosphate or Ca3(PO4)2, aka “bone ash”, along with calcium carbonate as described above.  I understand that bone ash does not dissolve well in water, and that it also acts as a dispersant as well.  Also, from what I gather, bone ash might be useful in tissue repair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricalcium_phosphate, http://forum.mixxingbowl.com/index.php?topic=3140.0;wap2)

c) Wheat ash
As for ash from wheat, I understand that it will contain potash, plus phosphates, plus Magnesia (MgO) http://chestofbooks.com/health/nutrition/Dietetics-6/Ash-Part-3.html.  I understand that phosphates make excellent detergent additives (and fertilizers) but cause terrible algae problems. 
 
Questions:
Now for the particular questions.  I am wondering:

• Given some of the chemical diversity of the "raw" ingredients, will the mixing or combining of the “fuels” before they are burned influence the final combustion products (in comparison to the ash obtained from burning each one independently)?
• What will be generated as a result of mixing the salt with wheat as it combusts?  Sodium Carbonate?  Assuming a balanced amount of salt (Sodium Chloride) is provided in conjunction with the wheat, what would be the major ash constituents be, chemically speaking?  Would the sodium combustion product be useful in water softening, topical skin healing, or cleansing? 
• Would the bone ash serve as an effective dispersant and help push away small contaminants?
• What might the Magnesia do?
• How concentrated would the dry ash be, and if applied topically, and could the mixture with body sweat cause burns to skin?  Would time impact the reaction, or would the limited (ash) matter quantity limit potential damage as the chemical reaction reached equilibrium?
• How concentrated might the liquid solution be if made with cold water and NOT boiled down or concentrated in any way?  Would it or could it be capable of destroying bacteria or viruses without damaging skin?
• Will the mixed composition of ashes take on any special properties as a result of mixing them together in water?  e.g., will the bone ash or grain ash temper or boost the PH or make something else that I haven’t considered?  How might the bone ash or wheat ash uniquely contribute to the mix from a cleansing, healing, or water chemistry control standpoint?

Any help would be appreciated, these questions are beyond my experience/talent level and pay grade!

[Arkcon]

Maybe you should try to experimentally investigate each one, maybe first separately, then combined.  You can compare with other cleaning agents, with whatever criteria you can come up with to experiment on.  You already realize these are ancient procedures that have been lost/neglected over time, so you may not find anyone who can answer some of your questions.  For example: "What might the Magnesia do?" is too open-ended.  I'd just say, "A good source of magnesium for metal extraction.  That's what I know people use it for."

[ashman]

To suggest that I should try to reach the answer to my principal question experimentally sounds like Cartman pretending to be Socrates.  To be frank, I wasn't sure who would reply to this, but I can say that I was expecting any responses to be much closer to Boyle than South Park.   

As for your suggestion, I wasn't asking how ash mixes compare to any cleansing agent we have today, so I have no idea why you would suggest that I do that as part of my study. 

I realize that some of such cleansing mixes or medicinal procedures [particularly the use of bone ash or Ca3 (PO4)2] have been lost or discontinued over time; that is precisely why I am asking the question in the first place.  I also realize that it is an obscure question and that I may not get any insightful response.  But I don't think it's out of line to ask such a question on this type of forum; and if it is, you'll have to accept my apology.  And just because they don't use any such mixture anymore doesn't mean that it's a bad idea or a stupid question.  The Pakistani research that I linked below substantiates this idea, but unfortunately the publication or documentation of said experiments seems to be few and far between.   

As for specificity, the questions I am asking are in the context of the chemical reactions that take place at the combustion temperatures, as well as once they are mixed with water at room temperature or applied to the skin.  In other words, when mixed with CaCO3 or Ca3(PO4)2 at 600 degrees C, will the addition of Magnesia change products of the combustion reaction?  When the three elements are added to water, will it change the salts or cleaning properties of the water?  As implied in my opening statement, all of my questions pertain to cleansing and healing; they have nothing to do with the metal extraction. 

[fledarmus]

The problem is, you've asked sort of a Cartman question. Burning is a very complicated process, and biological systems are very complicated systems, yet you expect a short reply in a forum to explain it all to you? And maybe this is the wrong forum to get the kind of answer you want. If you read the forum rules, you will find that we don't generally answer questions directly, we try to help the questioner find his own answers. If you want to learn about the burning process and what products you will get, then some simple experiments are a good place to start. If you're not interested in actually studying the process, maybe what you really need is a hired consultant.

To start with, what do you know about the composition of ashes of biomass? Do you have an understanding of what burning does to organic materials and what part of it will be ash? If you are starting from ground zero, this might help as a brief overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_(analytical_chemistry) If you have some understanding of chemistry to start with, try a Google Scholar search for ash analysis on the particular systems you are interested in. This was a hot topic of research in the first half of the twentieth century, and the mineral content of a wide variety of biological systems was analyzed in this manner. The procedure is not difficult.

[Arkcon]

To suggest that I should try to reach the answer to my principal question experimentally sounds like Cartman pretending to be Socrates.  To be frank, I wasn't sure who would reply to this, but I can say that I was expecting any responses to be much closer to Boyle than South Park.   

Sorry, I'm not a founder of chemistry, just a guy with free time on my hands, like Socrates himself.  Curious comparison, did you actually read the Forum Rules, posted in red, at the top of each page?  We're supposed to try to tease out answers using the Socratic method.

As for your suggestion, I wasn't asking how ash mixes compare to any cleansing agent we have today, so I have no idea why you would suggest that I do that as part of my study. 

Foolish of me, using the title of your thread as a source of information on the topic.  If you recheck the forum rules, we don't give specific information, on this forum, for personal medical use.  This is a liability issue.  So we really don't want to get into the healing aspects.  I was trying to direct the conversation towards your cleaning field.

I realize that some of such cleansing mixes or medicinal procedures [particularly the use of bone ash or Ca3 (PO4)2] have been lost or discontinued over time; that is precisely why I am asking the question in the first place.  I also realize that it is an obscure question and that I may not get any insightful response.

   

I'm so glad we understand one another.

But I don't think it's out of line to ask such a question on this type of forum; and if it is, you'll have to accept my apology.

And just because they don't use any such mixture anymore doesn't mean that it's a bad idea or a stupid question. 

Woah.  Who said that, on this forum, in this thread?

The Pakistani research that I linked below substantiates this idea, but unfortunately the publication or documentation of said experiments seems to be few and far between. 

Sounds like something that's needed.

As for specificity, the questions I am asking are in the context of the chemical reactions that take place at the combustion temperatures, as well as once they are mixed with water at room temperature or applied to the skin.  In other words, when mixed with CaCO3 or Ca3(PO4)2 at 600 degrees C, will the addition of Magnesia change products of the combustion reaction?

Curious.  You know these components aren't available until after combustion, yet you consistently ask how they'll interact before combustion.  I see what you might be asking, how the diverse mixtures will combust together, but its hard to be sure what you mean.

When the three elements are added to water, will it change the salts or cleaning properties of the water?  As implied in my opening statement, all of my questions pertain to cleansing and healing; they have nothing to do with the metal extraction. 

Of course, I meant that to show that your question isn't clear enough, or maybe simple enough, for a simple answer.  You have an extensive list of background sources, and you're trying to mix them at random.  I really feel that that is a process that's going to end up nowhere rapidly, and I'd like to see you trim it a bit, so we can be productive.