[br0ns0n77]

I've been following a group that is experimenting with crystal batteries which involves Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate (Alum). Basically the group is trying to figure out how one guy is getting his alum crystals to grow almost instantly by pouring an unknown solution into the alum + distilled water mix. He will not reveal it, but he mentioned carbon, hydrates and it not being toxic. So maybe some sort of carbohydrate? Sugar? Fructose? I'm thinking it has to be some sort of household chemical that he's adding. From the video I saw the liquid he added poured almost like oil, so it's thicker than water. I was reading about Bluing Agents and saw that it contains charcoal (carbon) and iron plus ammonia. Do you think that's what he is using? Anyway, the objective is to keep the alum crystals acting as a gel and locking the water into the crystals so the water can move back and forth. I was hoping someone here might be able to give some insight. Thanks in advance!

PS. Attached is the molecule diagram he provided as a clue, but I have no idea how to read that.

[Arkcon]

I have no idea where you get the word "battery" in your topic description from your posting, but anyway ...

OK, so , someone is growing crystals from a saturated solution.  I used to play with that myself.  When adding something to a saturated solution, crystals may form rapidly, because the addition provides nucleation sites.  Its best if the solid is more of the same crystal, or chemically similar or has a similar crystal growth form, but even dust or other insoluble powder will work.  The cartoon molecular model is some sort of large protein or other bio-molecule.  It may be familiar to someone, but I doubt you can easily determine it from that photo -- that's not really a chemical structure.  If only because some of it is hidden in that perspective view, and could be anything.

[br0ns0n77]

We are experimenting for use within batteries with another metal. If you are familiar with growing crystals, you know it takes days to get the crystals to solidify - whatever he's adding to the alum + distilled water allows the crystals to form and lock in the water faster. We're all trying to figure out what it is he's adding to create the solid crystal structures so fast. As soon as he poured in that ingredient, the alum & distilled water adhered to it quickly making it lumpy like a paste.

Thanks for your reply - if you know of anything that might cause this, please let me know.

[br0ns0n77]

Also note that I mentioned what he added looked like fructose syrup or some sort of slow-pouring clear liquid. Within a matter of seconds the crystals starting lumping up and forming. He mentioned something about "where does the carbon go" as a hint. That's why I thought of some sort of carbohydrate...

[aliphatic]

Not to advocate an engineering aproach to the problem, but have you tried karo syrup or the like on your own to see if you may be correct in your assumption? I mean, it's cheap enough to do. A few questions answered and I'll go to wegmans in 4 hours and try it in my kitchen.
A) We're talking food-grade alum here, not any of the other alums.
B) Just Alum and hot water, nothing else added to the mix other than the mystery substance?
C) Just an observation, but his crystals must be really shitty, impure and tiny.
D) is this a video online, where we could see ourselves?
E) Is this man an instructor of some sort who is trying to to educate, or is he just trolling? There has to be more information to glean that may help. Where is the video from, who is it aimed at, who is the video of, does he give any other discription of the process?

[aliphatic]

My additional musing: maybe he used glycerol. Its hydrophilic, clear, thicker than water, and maybe it grabbed enough water to force crystals out of solution.

To clarify E, is this a video that was found from a reputable source, where the person is trying to engage the audience to think about a problem, if so, there are things about the video that we know that may be taken for granted, ie if it was geared to high school students, the material covered is more limited than that to university level.
If the video is found online, the source may be less than reputable and the person in it may be concealing certain facts that would clarify things, ie if I made a video about how to make milk glow in the dark, didn't say I added luminol to the solution, then challanged anyone to tell me the principles at work.

[aliphatic]

And by hydrophilic I mean hygroscopic.

[br0ns0n]

Thanks so much for the reply. I was actually thinking of glycerol - is that easy to find? I tried karo syrup but it didn't seem to do anything to pull the crystal out any faster. The guy doing this is John Bedini. He has successfully used Alum and other ingredients to form a crystal battery that really puts out nice power. Look him up on YouTube.. his username is energenx. One of the videos it shows him pouring this liquid into the solution and man, the crystal form quickly. You can also follow his conversations to us on energyscienceforum. Seems he can't disclose the mixture for whatever reason.

[br0ns0n]

To answer the other questions:

A) Yes, just regular aluminum sulfate
B) Just alum + hot distilled water

He also said that he added three other chemicals to form the mystery ingredient. The goal was to make the crystals form fast, but not grow/expand once formed. Cream of Tartar has to be one of those. The other is some sort of syrup or viscous liquid like you mentioned and no idea what the other is, maybe baking soda? I think there's some sort of Aluminum Hydroxide that comes out of this thing too... looks like a gel once he adds everything together.

[aliphatic]

I looked him up. In addition to his YouTube advertising and sales, John Bendini, along with a company called EnergeX in the mid 80was involved in trying to market a free energy generator, using some B.S. about Tesla and vacuum energy. Have a look-see.

 http://www.energenx.com/john34/foreward.html

His site is making rather boasful, distorted, and misleading claims about the products he sells, To be frank, he is a class C bullshitter and I am surprised he is still allowed to conduct business. His site belongs in this post, or one similar:

 http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=61955.0

Though his methods for crystallizing alum may prove to be valid, I'd be very skeptical of any claims made by this man. Email him and see if he will tell you whats in it, or why he can't disclose the ingredients of his secret formula.

[br0ns0n]

Whatever has happened in the past may or may not be true about him... all I know is that with alum + distilled water gives me a somewhat solid charge in a dry cell lead battery without sulfuric acid. Getting it in the paste or gel state seems to keep the crystals from being diluted too much. I'm just wanting to know what potential compounds or chemicals could make the crystals grow faster. I'm not really concerned with his credibility.

I thought about the glycerin myself and that could be the answer, but wanted some ideas from people that are familiar with chemistry. I'm certainly not.

[aliphatic]

Still trying to see if this would work. Oddly enough, glycerin can't be found in drug stores any more. Someones probably found a way to make illicit substances with it and its been pulled for our protection. 

I didn't mean to dissuade you from playing around with this or anything, just wanted to say that this guy may be misleading potential customers into thinking he has something he doesn't. His company's financial statements for the past 5 years give evidence to a good motive. I didnt want you being grossly mislead.

Anyhoo, my curiosity is piqued, I'm going to try it out in the next few days (whenever I can find this stuff without resorting to internet sales) to see if it works.